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Organization, Babylon, and the Civil War

Eugene Prewitt


Eugene Prewitt

Director, The Institute of East Asia Training (IEAT)



  • 2007-01-18T00:00:00-08:00u00to00
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prepare move again our father in heaven I ask as we study today that you would give us wisdom to teach us what is right and true masculine name of Jesus and to never match drives less formal conversation method of class but there are three topics I do intend to see covered during this period one of them is the organization and babbling issue for them is the syllable war in relation to come back and see in one of them is the symbol floor in relation to Ellen White's inspiration which is not dealt with in your chapter to which we will but I will be talking about so if you save an related to those reports in particular that's great and when the class is about half over cylinders can take over and make sure you are the points I want to be here now already the sunroom or anything from your reading this marks and in all Rice in the eighteen fifties when developing church had probably about fifteen members because it was in the sixties Larry's a hundred they built a church for three hundred and eight equivalent of Arkadelphia if we baptized fifteen people in April building a church for ninety and was got the great exhibition of faith smelter or something Mister birther and fog wasn't it John that so saw very gone to the combatants E confusion business that you sent her some confusion of the related baths he is the biblical reason for confusion there are some things in the Bible and are little bit perplexing on this topic are elated that that water is the Bible that sort of this come down on that no combatant seaside okay we got a commandment thou shalt not murder that Lopez what else love your enemies which is hard to harmonize the shooting keeping the Sabbath which was an issue related to be brought before Congress that how can you keep the Sabbath and fight wars or she could maybe some astronomers another issue that we could fight in the Civil War inside of the North could be vital one side of the South is not a fair question addressed in the South not mean that they can live they can't volunteer or when a third draft in the South is not different if you got the north of the better question get on with verses inside of noncombatants you right now spoken of thousands of noncombatants see if it's an unjust war and any other than the Bible there are more deluxe or hear anything the Bible that looks like it's on the side of combatants he gave for example God instituted lots of wars I mean it's cut every heated and God 's faithful man very many respectful man were warriors and in fact the son of Moses says that God is a man of war and Jesus in relation twelve has a war an undated see his error it needs to be rendered what is Caesar light of loss to him and the phone was in Romans thirteen A one under obedience to the higher powers and resist the power you're damned and the Smith else in the side of combatants he okay Revelation thirteen that is talking about America and prophecy and it's kind of a weak argument to be honest with you Mister Eisley but their thinking that America is going to be on the wrong side we want to be fighting the support the power this country fighting against God 's truth in the act but surely that is not a rounded solution is not to help the people in Columbia a second like about that second help the people in South Africa for an account for doctrine understands that have to be not so much situational as biblical doctrine such an insane okay so let's talk about what did happen and then we'll talk some militia to James White as Mister barrister mentioned was very concerned that keep admonition men out of the military and a at one point the Civil War the law was that you must go and less you can come up with three hundred dollars or replacement that is if you're drafted you can become a recruiter you say hey buddy Joe you know we define this rebellion in the south and I've been drafted that is they cannot let you go in my place a better effort to go and are you recruiting someone else figure your promoting the white the same time yes asleep against that which seemed inconsistent the sun can you understand what it felt on the other hand the other option is about the same time and that is that you get together three hundred dollars to support the war after the money was not going for example to comfort grieving widows who's going for munitions and which is going to kill more people three hundred dollars for the bullets and a half a penny each or soldier over there thought that through such what it seems like you try to get Adventists out and show generous and why you want to show the support of the church for the government in this war were there some organizations in North were sympathetic with the South in a war between two simple bodies what happens if your inside of the civil body and its perceived you have sympathies with the civil body laps you lose your liberties Limited a Japanese would put them in concentration camps well that's me a strong word prison camps in World War II these were nice good American Japanese discovery to know which of them might turncoat and become spies that's not nice but backed out and assist rate the things I supported the effort had failed to sign her up to and about and rest related to the Civil War what did happen you okay nurses and add find the three groups yet we ended up having a lot of confusion on this by James White wrote an article in the paper called the nation which was itself sort of confusing if you read the article the nation you're not quite sure whether it's supporting combatant the right not and then certain Adventist ended up saying we believe the Bible says thou shall not kill we are not to kill up that means workbook before a firing squad were not NHL they blended that prevented me and that they prepared a statement they get to their state legislature saying that therefore drafted and you can shoot us if you want to we are not going to participate in this war which to some of us might sound kind of like virtuous courage but it was nearly the first time the life spoke up in that reference to combatants no she said I'm paraphrasing terribly she indicated that those men did not know what they were talking about they had not faced death and if they did would find their bravery falling to pieces and that we should be very careful not to give any indication that we have any sympathy with the South that we have no sympathy with rebellion that and she went on for a while those were very bold insane how they would be conscientious that that brother thought all was not a virtue it doesn't say that we should be combatants but it sure wasn't the kind of encouragement expected from her okay I cycled about what should happen will go to another issue the Bible has some clear statements related to combatants he Jesus that if any man compels the to go with him on I'll go with him twain that's Matthew five versus thirtysomething who was it that would compel you to go explaining the time of Jesus I think it would compel you to go a mile as the Roman soldiers and if there's any argument that holds no water it is the argument of of eventual causes it works like this if I give three hundred dollars the government the government will use it to buy forty thousand bullets and they will kill three hundred southern soldiers and two northern soldiers by friendly fire therefore I am guilty of killing three hundred and two people however sensible the argument may sound it is a legitimate let me give that's an argument to you and another ways you can hear the problems it leads to our father in heaven sends rain on six million or six billion people many of them shoot and rape and murder each other and molest each other therefore God is responsible for this is the argument is going but Jesus taught is that I responsible for my decisions the limits of my responsibility is my is my field of authority I responsible to do right with what I have and if I am part of a government for example and I pay taxes to the government I'm responsible to pay taxes to the government which is responsible to God to guard my liberty if the government does not take care of its responsibility that does not release me from my responsibility so in fact Peter and Jesus and Paul also pay your taxes you know how the three of them died at the hands of the government they said the pay taxes to at least Jesus knew it was coming to understand what I'm saying the Bible doctrine it is certainly contrary to those who would say don't buy from Procter & Gamble because you're going to be support Dean and Spiritualism which of course is entirely bogus more your Bibles in levels of regular job I will share turn in your Bibles to Luke chapter three Luke chapter three and were looking at verse fourteen and the soldiers likewise demanded of John the Baptist saying and what shall we do and he said unto them do violence to no man neither accuse any falsely and be content with your wages I just summarize what John said the soldiers do not kill do not bear false witness against thy neighbor thou shalt not covet religious require of the soldiers required obedience to the ten Commandments these were not just any soldiers these were the soldiers who wanted to join the church what a lineup to do the reminder to be baptized it is legitimate for the church requirements numbers obedience to the ten Commandments even if those members are soldiers for the soldiers to do violence to no man which of course makes it troubling than the carryout some of their occupational endeavors there's much more that could be said on this topic and I have two other points I want to get into during the same period sauna refer you for your own interest of an article called the draft that can be found at Bible .org b.i.d. LED DOC .org there he noticed your reading that there is not a document prepared at that exact same name the draft was an article prepared in your reading to help address and help the government know how I should relate to it what religious group was responsible primarily for getting an exemption for the just certain religious peoples in the war of the Quakers you should enjoy your oatmeal more hardly ever after reading that the Quakers are pacifists is that the position of Adventist I will tell you the very first I said to you was an anti- pacifist position do not pacifism means it is the position that that doesn't follow the logic I present to you a pacifist will not let refused to shoot the enemy to refuse to feed the man who shoots the enemy refused to clean the wound of the man who shoots the enemy refused to helping on the man who shoots the enemy refused to pay his taxes to the mound to the people who pay the man who shoots the enemy he's a thorough goal being that believer and not responsibility for eventual causes I will tell you he is not thought his position through carefully enough or he must become a hermit because when you buy at Walmart you are supporting some wicked people and their wicked endeavor and when you buy gas your supporting Venezuela and Iraq and Iran anything that starts Primerica anyway but I'm telling you that you cannot get through the business of eventual causes and God has never put that burden on you aren't you glad moving up that point what you remember about the issue of organization that was the main theme of the chapter yes something is the sure okay that's exactly right building off things that happened before eighteen forty four where it suddenly was the first Angels message the judgment hour is here was the second one that one is fallen and that message came in who was one of primary man responsible for bringing a message forward George Storrs did there was not a man but then first for an article about babbling fits exactly it was fixed Charles Fitch wrote this thing about now blended that just cracks of the scales of people 's eyes and this person with him about what is possibly applying the Protestants prior to fit that one was understood by Protestants referred to the papacy now address or with a few churches the holds that position but it used to be everyone helped out so here's the logic went babbling is the system of false religions and of Babel and it commits fornication with the kings of the earth therefore bad one is a mixture of religion with the state and now we go back to history look at all ages and it seems to make a lot of sense where does religion and of being amounts it's right unites with the state the pretty good as long as there is lots are being persecuted but what happens land up in America than to persecute and elopement of regard as long as there then become persecutors for the most part until Anabaptist movement began growing up in their area so now we come to the issue of organization and were going to incorporate as a body and his incorporation of a legal process is involved the state you know it does involve the state and so immediately years of incorporation that is the union of church and state if you're listening to this don't stop right now Stacy were that people came from or send we can organize between Dublin earlier Bibles for minutes to Revelation Revelation chapter seventeen are going to look at just a few things relevant this argument talking about the argument that if you would legally incorporate like watching telehealth has for example that you have now committed fornication with the states and are justly called babbling which then of course I do not believe relations seventeen verse two speaking about that one it says with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication this is a spiritual organizations we don't understand anything literal like immorality going on here but somehow there has been and that spiritually immoral relationship between the kings of the earth and this woman down one at least in verse two it's somewhat ambiguous that relationship their united somehow that is it by incorporation nerve via some other means but it's not ambiguous if you move further down in the very same chapter look at verse eighteen my question is what kind of relationship to the kings of the earth have with this harlot verse eighteen and the woman which thou saw asked is the great city which was a say Ray Nath over the kings of the earth and versatile she commits fornication with them but what is she doing verse eighteen and you know that's exactly the relationship is described by that one that one is that relationship for the church is using the state to her own hands of the babbling the great business about one's daughters are this history provide plan evidence of churches using the state to their own ends thoughts when the church control the state that babbling listen when you incorporate you're not controlling the state you're not exercising your power to manipulate the state you're not influencing legislation that OR and I guess the firm I'm saying is that the argument is just bogus if you are passages look at a few verses further eighteen verse three for all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her listen and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich to the abundance of her delicacies and then at verse nine in the same chapter and the kings of the earth have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her they shall go well her lament for her when they shall see the smoke of her burning I want to understand the two-way relationship between the woman and the Kings the woman's benefit is that she controls the Kings what's the benefit to the Kings they have a luxurious or pleasant or more power or beneficial life from the things that she provides in this illicit relationship has always been a relationship with the church and the state why does the state submits to be manipulated by the church because the church offers the states benefits user terms of drives sometimes islands and lands with Portugal get Portugal was given India what it's anger Spain was given in turn South America Sagan thank you I'm talking about the way that the relationship between the kings and this woman down one it is not an innocuous relationship it's not something like like incorporation it is a real relationship beneficial to the state that seems to them but really beneficial to the church that is controlling them Mister Reisman I would say that that is pert near schizophrenia for example here I am part of a church would you please tell me sir how the state is controlling me is it affecting my doctors thought it were to go where to worker how to do my evangelism is it fundamentally my conference but my conscience really serve a free making accusation checked the ninth commandment do your homework that might be very nice to say that way somebody were tactful is really here anything else or from chapter related to the type of organization yes it James White you can really accused of being a proud man he accomplished and that's amount of work and was content to let other people get credit for so they may find buying things at first president next abolitionist suck about the pressures that built up towards eating organization other worse pressures that listen to this right now are so practically relevant patent doesn't what's going on and was the day that makes this chapter relevant is called the congregational movement I think it's called that maybe I'm the one who called that I stopped home church movement is headed by satellite or on the liberal and it's that movement is that of associated conversational churches that are are trying to have a less top-heavy organization that separately administered nomination is traditionalism and the biblical model for organization this was the issue that had to be settled biblically in the eighteen sixties in the New Testament you have local churches the local churches handle their own affairs what kind of organization exists in the local church and the Bible of one thing you have elders and deacons and those elders and deacons have authority to discipline their members but what about if something gets sour in a local organization so that the whole organization is going the wrong way is a happy New Testament I happens in the church of thy atrocities atrocities ends up getting control over the church and that this fellow shipping those for trying to receive the apostle John's advice medicine understatements called John's right vice let's look at it turn your Bibles to the John's just before June third John verse nine for John verse nine says I wrote unto the church but diet trustees who love to have the preeminence among them receives us not wherefore if I can't I will remember his deeds which he dies arguing against us with malicious words and not content there with neither does he himself received the brethren listen he forbids them that would and cast them out of the church I should just ask you is the church in the end of that verse the true and faithful or an organization isn't it very clear that it has to be an organization because a wicked man can't cast faithful people out of the true and faithful is there anything in these verses indicate that there is an organization about the local level there is the promise the apostle John that when he can't discuss set things in order how could John set things in order if there is no organization above the local level he would have no authority over another conversation but the best example of this course is asked fifteen leading up acts fifteen there is a major argument between two different segments of the church the churches that are primarily Judean and in Jerusalem and those that are the new Gentile churches and the question is do we need to circumcise our boys on the eighth day and what about all these other mosaic lots Paul's teaching this group you don't need to give them but the leaders over here saying you do as a major disagreement of doctrine inside the United Christian Church if the church was only Congregational you would end up with two different congregational associations associations what happens the two parties come together with representatives they pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit they listened the evidence from the apostles and prophets claim from the Old Testament and the prophets right there in the New Testament the Bible standard as their guide they settled the issue and then they send out the word to all the churches and authoritative answer to this question for Jewish and Gentile Christians to understand this is the equivalent of our general conference the Bible certainly teaches organization above the local level for dealing with issues of doctrine all what happens if you don't have it doctrines that would take that Judea is Christian Jew Jew the Jewish Christians by surprise don't bother Cornelius and his his people and that errors that end up getting into the people all of Galatia don't bother the Christians in Jerusalem so that Satan working on the weaknesses in various regions of the world does not succeed in overcoming the body as a whole this is why Adventism with system visions on a number of doctrinal positions for example the ordination of women though the leading man in the leading of parts of the church which are mostly Western country this favorite in most cases yet it is never been passed through a general conference session because Satan 's errors don't take the whole as well as they take the part slut began to happen prior to organization we had to doctrinal apostasy is going on you read about the Marion Iowa issue or something lock on the number something in Michigan pastures soon became disaffected Muslims for interesting about pastors in Michigan pastors and elders break off and tell it briefly here the two passers in Michigan and it may happen to hear one of their members arguing with a woman and they hear her say of profane word in the argument now that is grounds for discipline the course first continues to do is repent and confess solid at church trial they bring her it and that day and she will not confess that she said the work she won't she won't she won't she's lying there in public and there gave frustrated angry how could she do this we have two witnesses and then only shows up a lot has a vision and she says the lady did wrong to get angry with her neighbor in the past tours are so happy for the vision they speak about the inspiration of God helping us through our difficulties here you have it and they go to the next morning Helen White has another vision relate son of the woman Washington get angry with the neighbor that she did not say the word but she was accused up she said a word that sounded similar to it so she saw that the woman breaks down confesses of exactly what happened humbles her heart and makes things right as best she can among the two pastors do they end of the first life at cellular rebuke for their harshness spirit which was more than they could take Navy can the leaders of rebellion became called the messenger party so there was rebellion cause almost like personality issues but in the Iowa little different was Wisconsin I forget which place happen but in the other place there were many non- centering on Vanessa Neil the non sequitur in Adventist I told you they stepped off the platform of Miller is on and they most sometimes was called the age to come theory interpreting the prophecies as if there is that it be odd thousand years of peace your on earth is to get better and better and a couple of them are convinced about the Sabbath and so they became secretary and administer but when that review published an article on the millennium I never had been convinced about the millennium so they began to fight against that doctrine and began to join at the messenger party and promoting their doctrinal errors but eventually they totally rejoin the other at Vanessa give the Sabbath when they lost their influence their peers of what I want to make with the organization you can't do anything about that kind of you can say those are bad men but you can't remove there are authority to teach you can't hire a new pastor to replace them our organization even this fellowship in this kind of an odd thing what is immunity fellowship if you just toss it made me notice how you need to leave churches that the organization or something else that led to need organization besides the need for doctrinal purity and dealing with doctrinal error Melissa was okay only stuff in general this would be in Agra I'd say to those people who are against 501(c)(3) 's John know how works the nonprofit organization if we as a board of Washita ministries decided is coming April that this is just too much work we would rather devote her life to secular business and let you all find other schools to go to know you have other good options let's sell the property is probably right now worth about one half million dollars and will pay off our debts and gets a good hundred fifty thousand each for the board members who decry live on that for a good amount of time you can do that Julie could do that even if we all voted together because a 501(c)(3) is a legal organization that has a law that says that if it dissolves its assets by law must go to another 501(c)(3) organization with similar values and aims they cannot go to personal people are to us you see a sense of the kind of law without a states to protect this kind of ownership situation is the man who owns the first building the apostasy of the church building becomes whatever he wants to be a life of vinegar mail as an example exactly this is just illustration without ownership of property there can be no institutional stability there's no one on campus now that they said the move and go work somewhere else that we would closest thing down but if this thing belong to for example say Doctor Mrs. Clark the property personally blonde of them what happens if they die and that their children inherited virtual and uninteresting continuing the ministry you it was a very important thing organ organizing and before we organized it really held up James White to criticism what kind of criticism yet if we have a building and we don't have organization and we have a craftsman organization someone has to own it legally the course of it ideas must be a selfish dude just trying to get rich by duping people sometimes I want a real man pushing for organization was around reason that we needed a push organization there was an essential for the give you a hint the name of account since her sister Betsy was sister Betsy L about you to do your reading to do with Berlin if you look in your faith sister of that fear that was not a summary of or what we called systematic benevolence because we had such illustrious men is Jan Andrews in the Loughborough who not because they were weak will but because they had wise to support a resigned from ministry to go into secular business why here read about Loughborough working hard all winter long and working in secular jobs four days a week to earn four dollars a week and then putting all his evenings and mornings and weekends inside God 's work and how she received from the brother and for all that work zero waste meat and sent that way he said he received from them for dollars if you count them out here earned her enough or before dollars per week and now he earned from his labor China's own work exactly then ended in the depression working for a sniff of her time he receives letting up four dollars archive is more than four dollars March four dollars working in the depression hit again for a longer time for dollars cash and then half a hog you know it took us a while to learn about the help message and ham and a bunch of food because poor farmers when they had to pay with the but that doesn't help you with your clothes so to Jane Andrews discovered a tiny principal and Mrs. Miller had a Bible study organization to study out how to support the ministry did he find the typhoons fully stated out he found it so I donate go forward with it you know God 's rates very gentle with his people sometimes we just aren't ready to advances we need to manifest the course we did but begin with we are recommending an entirely different system the system is John's so prioritization the metadata they just keep five bucks prepared to minister shows up give it to him and send the rest of the money to us to pray with the depressants and do evangelism listen I got my meds left ninety to get my third topic so I can jump to it felt light wrote quite a bit about the Civil War my intention was to read you a bunch of it I understand I get to that you'll find in this first line the testimonies that chapter out to see a page number is that what you believe it's there looking up Sunday it's called the rebellion against page three fifty five in that section are a number of statements ultralight makes that are used on or in anti- all my websites to indicate that old what is a false prophet and like to speak to that for a minute I went for example wrote that the South was likely to come in on the soccer swimming itself the nation of Great Britain 's likely to come into the war in the side of the South and that if they did the ravine no hope for conducting the war successfully other words there's going be to countries and soda one in Britain join the war itself not a good example I guess I'll live without for time-saving distillate that one the others are of similar nature electrode a lot about the Civil War prior to will be called the Emancipation Proclamation she wrote a great deal about how the North had sympathizers regarding slavery in them and she quoted the president as saying that if you can save the union without abolishing slavery he would do it as it was Lincoln say anything if you can get this out to surrender and stop the war on the condition they can still keep their slaves he would accept the surrender under those conditions she makes they thought what would happen but the conditions change Abraham Lincoln speaks to himself he had an entire change of heart relations issue of slavery and as soon as he made his decision that slavery must go no matter what the cost God began to prosper the arms of the North more particularly it was after the Adventist church realizing that its worldwide work was to fall to pieces if the board did not stop when they devoted as a here we are worldwide church we have a grand total of three thousand members but when those three thousand members gave a couple weeks to earnest prayer and fasting things began to happen fast and within three and a half weeks the war ended at least the surrender of Richmond K this guy here his faithful feel when they come to him with earnest prayer he does listen the word already been going for four years to have redline comparison and there was no evidence from the started are universal notice that the Northwood win monotonous and when soon summary as they are good afterthought injection shall find including the ones about the Civil War era have anymore questions come to mean I'll talk about you look at your most recent as I is is was okay so let's bring this out next Monday it is an important point about James White's opinion and how it nearly led to the end of testimonies let's close Farhad 's our father in heaven I have to bless our time this evening especially the meeting we held later per meeting teach us the value of your councils regarding education your councils regarding organization councils regarding inspiration I asked for these gifts in the name of Jesus and


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