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2. Working the Problem...

Dave Fiedler

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Dave Fiedler

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  • June 19, 2014
    11:00 AM
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in order father we ask again your direction your wisdom Lord we are dealing with copy that will result in the loss saving of souls could pray you would make us wise workman and your cause is resisting the okay working the problem has sometimes life doesn't really want to go and you got to work on it can't ratify so what did Ellen White do what should the church do what what did we do what should we have done etc. etc. in dealing with the Kellogg situation well reversing a women good events spotted it first came up if you go looking for a no hard tangible the story proof of the introduction of pantheism the easiest place to say after this is probably what we can call it the beginning within the general compensation page ninety seven comments were made there believe by catalog and also by Wagner Bartlett Prescott at Internet are not and then I haven't done checking near there every summer there was meeting started and we kind of point I get the feeling that okay if the guy said this is this General conference session two years later he said the same thing and probably empty summers in between where he was saying on accounting circuit allows sermons and things are not as well recorded for us so I'd say that the very first thing would be to amplify problems when they come up that's what Elway most list IDS or most lamented that had been done is is catching the problem at the beginning is the number of statements he is not a profound order to businesses failing but each one has something to note scientific spiritualistic sentiments representing the creator as an essence pervading all nature had been given to our people and have been received even by some who had a long experience as teachers and the word of God the results of this insidious devising will break out a gain again yes don't think you'll not see we had gone actually a rather long stretch without seeing real blatant examples of it until some of the more recent manifestations Shelley said he will or will he write her your short time would be a modern manifestation within the last twenty of the floor and before you know last I don't know why supposedly wanted it faintly visible probably to each what I'm guessing maybe not the years been written previously been around since before that I will cover that in session for putting out but we didn't see much of it for several decades and we kind of laps down on a story about that little bit but I want you to notice this e-mail is again and again don't think it's going away eleven a weapon works he doesn't like she traded there is danger of the false sentiments expressed in the books they have been reading us to talk about people that go off studying and associating and reading things that they would be better off not reading there is danger the fossil is expressed in the extended reading will sometimes be interwoven by her ministers teachers editors with their arguments discourse and publications under the belief that they are the only principle is the teaching of the Scriptures the book the living Temple is an illustration of this work the writer in which declared in its support that its teachings were the same as those found in the writings of Mrs. light however noticed him in the same things she had a first time I landing anything like this in eighty five in this setting and I remember cooler lines some weird about that phenomenon on the same stuff you read about my characters college Christians and him daylight is slated as a goal rather admitted I was young and stupid and I do not level more than that made me pull back they are there actually is that eighty five wrong is the first action mandalas nineteen seventy six seventy five seventy six I was still in Academy had been Academy teacher who probably without a clue what he was doing was using guided imagery and even registers of the problem at that point I didn't realize until nine years later there was one beginning and was recalled to meet the influence of men who are studying science is a satanic origins USAID is working to make time and the of God and of Christ so again and again to give coming back and we have to have to need this immediate question we want to look the sentiment is a living example regarding the Brazilian Donovan received in a manner that Alana experience the truth when such men and consent to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil we are no longer to regard the subject is a medically treated with the greatest of that's important same that goes when we thought sound in the faith should have failed the synesthesia instead reinforce the sense of evil should alarm us as nothing else has alarmed there is a time to not deal with the greatest hour but we can easily get mixed up in Christ's life there were several times when it was inappropriate to deal with the greatest delicacy it's difficult to flip the table of this delicately it's difficult to say how you fighters delicately and yet when you pronounce the woes and the scribes and Pharisees she says he do so it's really easy to read and after you will die to announce yes no it is something that cannot be treated as a small matter the middle that so much light in such clear evidence as to the genuineness of issues we hold should become unsettled and led to accept spiritualistic theories regarding the personality of God can have to make a quick switch here so you can lose you this want to read something else to moment you can what I guess I mentioned it already but you would credit have an awkward situation in one regard because you're awake really tells us don't read them to me that example is that fuses never suffer yourself to open the covers of a questionable book and well that's great advice and I try to follow it but it does mean you have to be a little creative to know which books a questionable anyhow you know if I saw them read it right in and you're always there to come under the accusation while commuting communicating any man say what of course I haven't rented the Lord told me not to hunt fish and so that's a good reason to have it do you get some criticism to you having a technical problem that you seemingly going to be able to find what I want to find inside yourself so you yes nearly one thousand feet somewhere this includes easily competing their next insight is not an elegant here give you a little idea of the tall of somewhat these guys are saying ratings is I am instructed to say the sentiments of those who are searching for advanced scientific ideas not to be trusted such representations as the following are made quoting now this is the nonsense stuff okay she's going the far is as the lights invisible the sun the lights and why the spirit is the light shed abroad with any and it sounds profound they said we're going is another one the father is likely due in visible paper the sun is like the view gathered in beauty is for this spirit is likely to fall into the seat of life and factors are accounted phone bill when works is another representation the father is like the invisible vapor the sun is like the lead in cloud the spirit is rainfall on and working in refreshing and again all these stretches spiritualistic representations are simply nothingness they are in perfect untrue they weirdly confusing weekend and diminish the Majesty Majesty at Doctor which no earthly like this can can can be compared to God can not be compared with the things his hands and made these are mere earthly things suffering is a curse of God because of the sins of man the father cannot be described by the things of earth the father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily it is invisible the moral site link to get there the reference amount that would be special testimonies series V number seven page sixty two became a review one more step as you are this is I him and I feel for anyone sharing a single gate as I know you an example from easy way I like lock away your very good stuff he was Amanda got used a human and one thing you learn when you study history as in humans a very undependable lot and have laid down okay so I don't not try to know run Wagner down here but let the record is the record stand right spiritual things later speaking your spiritual things are spiritually discerned if we were there at the sign of the throne in heaven is not some would see the river and some would not view as his eyesight trained to discern spiritual things would see the string falling the manual is not spiritually not see anything one might say although I see the bright and sparkling water flowing from the throne of God and another would reply did you ever hear people say I cannot see it when a man cannot see what is the matter with him he is blind then I counsel you to buy me gold tried in the fire tonight than I is what I said tell me see and not people looking to basically lease and it goes on from there behind his one of the things that was common in this era in these examples is that there's blurring the lines and spreading something from a metaphorical understanding into a literal understanding and back-and-forth game and him and the world reality doesn't work quite that way there are differences between metaphors and reality again at another example all I delight in drinking water as they never have before I delight in bathing why I come right to the son of God a man may give you righteousness in the evening when he knows where the water comes from it recognizes the source the world is a good deal nearer the gospel than it knows anything about what it says that cleanliness is next to godliness but cleanliness is gone now your queens of the word which I spoke with Christ loved the church and gave himself for it he might purify and cleanse it by a quotes water bath in the word actually reads in the Danish and that is literal to just believe in the word that is not figurative that is not sentimental God wants his people to live now and seeing the invisible so that they will walk in the sight of the River of God and drink from the throne of God and they will and all they do will be eating and drinking his press hello what is the article is going on here is this is weird mix seeing mishmash in a lot of mashup right computer something is weird and mad shop of stuff okay I was his nature is not God and never was God 's nature testifies of God declaring his glory but need the result is not the okay so once you have spotted the enemy attack but how have I once spent a fair amount of time I said before that it was very awkward situation on many of these issues that divided the medical workers from the ministerial work and neither side was inside was right to know what was always in the middle trying to wrestle these guys backing some issues were more important than others you can't let no kind beginning no specific moral equivalency sailor with general conference was just as wrong side well yes and no but there's no incentive to come but oh what would write these letters trying to help both sides of the same as in this issue and one missing this year image rights but Doctor Kellogg you may tell me that you do not believe the messages I send you but I know that this is not true you know the experience of God is give me in his work you cannot deny that he is led and sustained me you may close your eyes and ears the message is a godsend after all and unit may depend on this a mother could not hold more firmly to a child dearly love their I shall hold you I expect to see you engage the work you guys give me and I pray for you constantly and private prayer family worship sometimes I'm awake in the night and rising a lot the room praying all old Doctor Todd fast do not let him go keeping steadfast denying his eyes and realize that you may see as clearly last night after going to rest I wrestled in earnest prayer for you until eleven o'clock then I slept until three I then rose and dressed and continue my prayer that God would draw back the curtain and let you see where you stand I felt it was of little use for me to write more acute for the many letters I've written not seem to have that Vanity Fair that result which I so much hope they would accomplish in the library was not leave me as you can see yourself as God sees she wrote letter after letter after letter and you don't sometimes in order to document a point to our core ill demonstrate something improvement with full sections of these layers never measured it but I bet you that over half of the content of those letters is pleading redemptive material rather than identification of sin material this morning I received a letter from you I would encourage you any efforts that you are making depressing the light we pray for you you will work out your own salvation with fear and trembling knowing that it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure I I would not say one word to destroy hope I know that the enemy will work diligently to this heart right effort after bearing testimony warning to Doctor Kellogg I would lead visit my heart would break night after night upon waking I would pray for him I hoped and prayed it would come out into the clear life thus the burden is still arrested upon me after I returned from the Oakland general conference in general contents nineteen oh three will talk about for one reason this yawning every soul to soul the same but I think it's fair to say that the length felt Kellogg situation more than probably any other with the exception of her sentence she will very similar letters were sent it's as he is not always what he ought to be the one of the reasons that was so forceful in her mind that she made a promise Kellogg's mother on her deathbed extracted a promise from our wife if she would do everything possible to John Saint Fisher promised she would hard this is a fascinating look story this is Sandra PS Edwards again I quoted last time misguided H Lewis came in his classroom at humor that at the General conference in nineteen oh three and I'm a little picture that conference for you because again I want you to understand how far this issue of the pantheism when before it was largely addressed in the nineteen oh three was a year after living temples been written at the General conference session a lot of issues not one word of which had anything to do with them is but the biggest issue of the day was the rewriting of the General conference Constitution we know what his return from Australia nineteen hundred she had called for a reorganization of the denominational structure that is taken place of the General conference of nineteen oh one three fascinating kind of way through all the details that's when they injected the union cost level of leadership up until that point he did general conference immediate supervision over a local conference and that meant that the guys in the general conference were trying to run things in South Africa and in Australia and on the sites waiting beyond okay that was causing a lot of problems and delays said none of this we've got everybody who changed some things in life said that he Tuesday she said we have to strengthen the General conference okay a degenerative string and she says we have to decentralize that supports the decision-making outfield just until the storage 's two stories on my way to the General conference is to come into the general compensation I we stopped at the place and I was looking out of it why not give you this morning was build something as well people says what was notable in the building and what are you doing this and the people there told me that's exactly what we want to do but we have authorization from our board was your board in Battle Creek she said had no one here with common sense if not by all means transporting them him time I paid at Bali for him like I is that neither the guy got off the realism and on the ground here now don't wait for a board with hundreds of miles away she was saying is you need to shun the decision-making out that the grassroots the ground-level guesstimate the General conference stronger and nobody knew what to do with that because the entire course of the strength of the General conference was into my new control over everything micromanagement of everything that moved in the world how do you make it stronger and can't be nicely into whatever completely dumbfounded I know I called that in nineteen oh one she says I don't hope you this will go well in ninety oh one what happened is a concept and was developed in the usage of representation hand I really don't play the symbols of their fierce animals have gotten at Mecca and Panama the dissolving the day we wrote the Constitution okay baby dramatically changed the confiscation of their denomination and when I was done how I said what hath God live that I can beginning of this conflict I had no idea how we could do a good one this is this one and this is malicious is nothing but the stately step things of that of Jehovah has been in our Isles or something like a house of God has blessed this is a marvelous thing that well at one of the things that was done and then explains the will to change the general conference committee that there were philosophical reasons for this and I can go through all those that have to do with the structure of the whole denomination where authority was from the ground up flowing upwards okay and the role of any level of organization was to help the one below it please take that picture really quickly so here's a Christian and he wants to do what is wanting to do and so he goes about doing good and he caucuses what he can and that's nice he's doing his Christian duty but as a Christian over here and who's going about and they're both going about doing good and fast good and then one day they realized that if they had a get together and take our church with five of them now they can do more than they could singly and so by combining talents and resources in such things this local church can now accomplish more than five local cool what is the church doing helping the local Christians accomplish what they do individually lament one day they'll wake up and they say all locked there's more churches out here is when hearing here here and here and they all got policies we all have a thinking blogger and we working together at the individual churches we can accomplish more we could maybe pool our financial resources we can do this like this would be evangelistic thing that none of us can afford by yourself so you have a conference union local conference what does the local conference to do the local conference is made up of the churches and its sole function is to help the church 's view what churches do the conference is not an authority placed over the church is to tell them what to do the conference has no existence of its own at home it is nothing more than the assembly of the churches working together to do what churches do and they took us all the way up to the top game so what this culminated in was the idea that you have a general conference executive committee twenty five members and they said this executive committee is not there to tell everybody else what to do if they are to help them do what they do so how does the executive committee help a conference or union conference do whatever it is the union conferences listed in how to produce a general conference do this and it came down in this big gusset being of service so the idea was our and our general conference officers and executive committee has to be the most talented people that we and their job is to take whatever their expertise is at health make sure that the conference is a lot help them in every way they can sell we need a committee that we need people that are involved in education many people are involved in a machine and cohort of work and medical work and evangelistic work and whatever else we actually know this is hilarious in a warped twisted sense there was already medicine so much of division between the ministry workers and the physicians that they said we want to have six physicians on our general conference executive committee and administers all said when available we don't notable for we don't even know six physicians for what they are stated in the Constitution he said six physicians and zero pence committee will be filled by the medical missionary benevolent Association and they didn't know so they can however entirely in C shows a position to serve the general company and an elected know so many guys medications I got in publishing Sony guys and evangelism for me whatever else is on the general conference executive committee was like a scale model of the church he represented everything that the church was supposed to get you a stamp of the best and smartest guys and ladies didn't know that they know what they're doing and therefore it should is to help go out with their expertise and just help their function is not to say this is the program everybody delicious not telling lacuna helping do what they doing that was the theory that was making a one question came up on its executive committee 's interesting century they made the committee self organize which is to say that at the general session they would elect twenty five individuals think you are our executive committee and locker room and you forget your chairman is your treasure is secretary you guys figured out well what they did was to examine what they needed to open a possibility for talent to take over the church and sometime in the fall of old to know exactly agent Jones was a member of the committee he came in with suggestions he said because the work of evangelism as this is the core heart and soul of the church and because international missions formations are our expanding so rapidly we mean the very best talent possible on that form so I would nominate over HUD to lead out international foreign mission but it would just be criminal to ask him to do that as well as being chairman of the executive committee i.e. general conference president at the same time and became very close to that motion passed he had been six votes from the physicians and it will be twenty five thirteen seventy seven more votes and Jones would add way elegant and eight votes in five more after that could be convinced by more people well it didn't work he did not work and that the goal was to play Jones is basically Democrats present Jones that point was basically a talent for the string of esophageal adversaries understandably can see why it would bang his leg illustrated we were the Constitution to take away that possibility in all innocence essay philosophically speaking I regret they did say what would happen with the system where they prevented any problem Jones didn't become the vice president or the system work but it was dicey so they changed in a way that consolidated control in the hands of the Ministry through the stop and think about it in general compensation the largest percentage of delegates of ministers and you know if if I ask you right now so there's an opening that many developing with somebody I ask you know who you vote for to fill this position really you can really only vote confidently for people that you know and if your minister evening of ministers thinking of physicians committee makeup no enabling so if it says it has concentrated that power and influence I'm not saying it's been out it's been abused and to say if you concentrated and then they said we need to bring all these organizations and make them a part of the conference that was the one thing that he had been saying for years and I try and take the sanitary way century was owned by the medical missionary Association in nineteen oh three they said we wanted to be part of Michigan conference Kellogg sent you a taken a senator he was president of the medical missionary Association game viewing vitamins and a very minded Kellogg to the medicament Association employed twice as many people as they has all the workers the church had twice as many employees as the General conference only to solve all this was going on in Maine zero three nine pantheism had not been an issue at the General conference in nineteen oh three this is on the last day and three Doctor Edwards says I met Sarah McKenna for alleged assistance in notice of the best business office and she said that Harry and she said that she and mother lot of the workers of work don't like all the motherhood she said that she and mother were taking the evening train to St. Helena and she wanted Doctor and Mrs. Paulson and me and my wife to accompany her we were to get on the train of Fruitvale a few miles from Oakland so no one would know we were going since we followed instructions and when we entered the car found very few passengers we sat down across the aisle consists away he smiled and looked at with not a word was said until after we got off the train at St. Helena then from Sarah came in a statement that mother was to see is a ten o'clock the next morning announcing that the century in Boston Center and in deep thought after being assigned to our rooms Doctor Paulson called me and said for me to find a quiet place will talk we went outdoors up the hill until we found a secluded spot and then he asked simply to questions what why we got down and prayed in her answer was what the next morning we for the doctors there was walk down the hill the Elm fiddler Sara was waiting we were taken out the study and mother medicines the smile after we were seated she started most interesting story about the events in her life and our lives with which she was conversing for an hour she entertained us but not a word about the message finally she turned to me and said .co he may be lost I hope and pray not if you've lost let him go with you brethren standing by with your hands on his shoulders see students would be dismissed and Doctor boss and I walked up the hill arm in arm we had a mission and a commission we try to carry out we made some mistakes in our methods sister when we prove this majority I have her letters of reproof and correction very precious last time I met Doctor Kellogg was a beginner level in the century dining room group of us gathered around him it was George Thomason the Econ staff Comstock Frank added then Kohlberg myself all doctor friends we said imparting a you not coming with us he answered after a minute of thought perhaps I am here with you than you know and so he was left with God with our hands on his shoulders couple comments about this the last they saw tell you I'd love to see that God heaven frankly I don't expect don't let him guide the growth opportunities thank you to find a way to satisfy the universe is not going to be there I'm on I don't see that there was ahead of a change that would to my mind make it likely that he'll be among the saved but I leave that to someone but this is the way you attack it did not work successfully with Doctor Calla is now the other doctor here Mrs. Edwards together Doctor was David Paul Mrs. April late April nineteen oh three October nineteen oh three was the honor council meeting that goal park and the iceberg vision and the whole thing is probably at type so it's good at CNN got an counsel catalog and a bunch of the doctors showed up determined to ram with example through it some statement of approval from the General conference committee everybody else was just a just wanted to try its normal business General conference session and then all twisted up into a knot over the whole rewriting of the Constitution all I should drop in one more line to and that is that before they got the general conference of nineteen oh three L later very interesting statement in a letter to a judge Jesse Arthur is the outcome of the last general conference session that would be nineteen oh one I remember the end of the nineteen oh one she was ecstatic she says know what hath God wrought in almost two years later she relishes the outcome of the last general conversations in the greatest sorrow of my life the Constitution and then rewritten constitutions to change hearts hands the steps that might have been taken in conversion decency were and so we had a new constitution with a new structure but we kind of had an old wine in new winds in excess that was the greatest sorrow in my life going out with a ninety oh three conference and got a lot of normal stuff that hasn't been always wrangling over the Constitution ownership of institutions and things that make soul all the cheesy guys they came to this out-of-town facility please commission progress along on Kellogg and all his buddies at the off when I wanted to thank you soar through and it were rented by the pressure Daniels was functioning as the chair he was just taken a beating all day long say you want to do and what the sailors in motion on the floor to approve of living Temple and at the end of the day he stapled visas are not preferable I know what that vote would have been but mess is that we not honestly we went to walk home was a few blocks from the meeting house with a word to know what North Carolina was from the hotel they were saying I think you just want to walk home by himself adopted David Post man was told to keep a hand on his shoulder walking home with this would be one of the mistakes and false they got Carol Allison they stood outside under a street lamp and Paulson was arguing strongly and eloquently for living Temple and the agony stands talking to go out and ultimately just as Paulson Daniels is going talking to Daniel 's boss is passed on some of the Jesse says if you don't see the light on this one these days God will pull you in the dust and you'll find another man leading I would request that is one of the mistakes that cost me Daniel is probably a little distressed he walked up the stairs in the house according to his account written thirty years later which is now escaped things tend to get a little exaggerated overtime video he says he walked to the door he was met by somebody there said that when you will come we had this envelope in a way nobody that that's where the story about the ship striking meetings she tells how Sundays before the Lord woke her up midnight said getting that stuffing getting ready right how have you a lot in a written before humility to sitting in getting ahead in the mail and you should visit Oregon it was really interesting and GG had something to get written out she finished talking writing like mad ideology analytic Canada someday you catch the drain opening course where was her bicycle I is signing and manager and wrong so this wasn't easy just and that saved us both letters save a bus in lost one will will learn my thought as I like that but those letters those letters say this and stop the progression of acceptance of those doctrinal elements but they do nothing to restore the bonds of fellowship the Nixon Hewitt victory is victory will history bingo ironically the therapeutic war program of curious was running was the Carthaginian general and he invaded Rome and Roman empire he rampaged up and down the Italian peninsula winning the battle after battle losing so many man a process that he lost his appearing victory when you win the battle and whistle were still here we still have lessons for scientific spiritualistic sediments representing the Creator 's essence pervading all major event given to our people have been received even by some who had a long experience is God the results of this Nvidia insidious device will break out again and again for that before there are many for whom special efforts lastly put forth the freedom from the spaciousness what do you notice it's not you cannot be a matter of simply cutting them off Polson was recording the game saw the weekly Prescott prevents breast authentication before they were singing Kellogg we lost not too many others it is obviously at that time his lessons now that I'm worried that we have a harder task than any of us I understand most people don't know there's a problem some people know there's a problem but the solution that they might have recently for law a bigger problem I don't pretend to have the actual answer I just think I know that special efforts will have to be put forth and limited down the road in a couple of lessons her sessions where they are you'll start seeing how hard the first on the rate was five thank you for Hawaii has the privilege of being involved in something important privilege of seeing big issues battled out stage your church Lord we would be wise we would learn lessons from former ages we would as best we can find ways to not just when I think is this media was brought by osteoporosis a website dedicated to spreading God 's word reading sermon audio and much more you would like to know more about numbers the more certain is 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