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Was Ellen White a Hoax?

Alan Parker
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Alan Parker

Professor of missions and evangelism and director of Pierson Institute of Evangelism at Southern Adventist University

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Conference

Recorded

  • January 19, 2008
    1:30 PM
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father we want to thank you that you have given an incredible gifts to us as a church Lord help us to understand the challenges that this individual big of the most talented father we pray that you will give a special understanding and wisdom this afternoon and may we sense that our feet need to be on solid ground we ask this in Jesus name amen all right how many of you have come across this concept that L1 is a hoax by the way we don't have music next door saving on again we just break into song and will join the frequent music that I any of you you come across a constant all right mollusks I people look on websites I work for amazing facts for a number of years and I'm annulus was complained that you know they would present story messages from the Bible people will accept that the messages and in that we go and look at these websites in a Bewley 's questionable things and that and that the people that were coming to the seminar since of embracing these truths would end up getting disappointed and skeptical and meeting this message so that's why we have to deal with the issues that out there they now bid for everybody to see and so we want to build a have a response how we got to deal with these kinds of issues so is what a hoax how we got to deal with the challenges in the auctions of this outline could be delusional you know that's one option are sincere but mistaken in other words she was a lunatic in on maybe she she was sincere about it but you didn't have to bus to do an equal for so that's one option second option is uniform it was all I carefully concealed functioning what you doing this with the lyre and I see wasn't true about what was that option is that alive was she going to be a messenger of God someone who receives messages from God and communicated that so this afternoon we want to take a lot and examine the evidence was delusional when she and we would take what she allied or was she who should claim to be a messenger from God clear on the issues good by the way that little breakdown is very similar to see his new assist grappling with is Jesus the son of God scientists use the same format selected alike I like to begin with the quotation and that's taken from testimonies for the judge volume three and this is something that she said many think of virtue unlocking the intelligence of man to be unbelieving and to question and quibble mission when you're an academic environment people like to say how you now like what you think of it so they break it down they can give you every criticism having taken the past of the lunch but he wasn't present I'm saying we we take them to lunch and we call upon his cell in a week we read Dyson the sake that the and and really followed up on what sometimes he will be met with the Bible and they do that with messages from God many think of what you even a modicum of intelligence to be unbelieving and questions a global buzz inside and out will have how much of plenty of room God does not propose to all occasion for unbelief Eileen Chang and if you want to absolutely citing as evidence which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and a teachable spirit and all should be aside from the lack the weight of the evidence of that figure get into a courtroom they put the evidence before you and you and I have to make a decision cannula ways prove it for the benefit of guilty know what you know by the way all the evidence the weight of the evidence God therefore give sufficient evidence for the candid mind to believe by seeing who tones from the weight of the evidence because there are a few things which he cannot explain to his finite understanding will be left in the cold shooting atmosphere of unbelief and questioning doubts and will make a short break obviously how do you know of people who done I certainly do people who just started with a few doubts and mix think about all the company doubts than it should break up if I inspected to be honest their own moments in our lives when we gone through that he's talking about that's what got does God really existed Jesus really can't you start dwelling on those doubts and Isuzu Inc. integration and soon you don't know whether God exists or not if you start taking these steps down this path you could like a shipwreck of your faith so when we come to Dallas when we come to questions we should we begin we should begin with with whether or not you have and what we do how we can approach the wood of God and in what way with twin which means you are going to know that she'll face if you want to ship regular faith in anything bingo with the real critical attitude I've got a lot of downtime examine this a break upon a breakdown if you want to build up your faith you have to go with that is an extensive event so we begin with faith and that's high wanted deal with these challenges from a faith perspective silently creates you right off the bat that I believe that Ellen White was a messenger of God I believe that she had messages she received messages from God and she shared those with the church so that's my perspective it's a faith perspective give me that it saw the other challenges while the Ellen White a plagiarist you will understand what the word plagiarism means it means she did she copied from others and before the winter on directly someone else's understand what pleasures you have otherwise make false predictions once I head injury in the course of provisions was controversial information hidden or deleted from provisions that you contradict yourself did she contradict the Bible site these are the challenges that we want to have a look at this afternoon and to see what is it how did they'll wind measure up against these charges because if that's true that Ellen White was a fake and a hoax and that Ellen White was actually copying information from others and she was just writing it down and she didn't have any visions from God then I would say let's brought it away you agree if she was a hoax let's throw her out with not bother with it so we have to instead examine the information and say hey is there more to the story so that's question another begin with and go back to what I dealt with this morning then Ellen White's Baker visions you know what she know I have you ever had somebody who fake something you know like that they get will sicken and already sick maybe any event kids like this but even being a kid like this not all I feel I feel terrible you know you got it you got an exam that day and you feel a headache coming on and I feel on you to be sick tomorrow this kind of warning you in advance for the things that it takes all my head my head may not like this when they get sick anyway so I think you can tell when people are faking it right business vivid melodramatic could Ellen White have faked provisions nominal eyewitness accounts clearly demonstrate that she went into vision she went into vision I you are conscious of everything that happened around that they would take a real bright light and shine a bright light right up yet she couldn't see it she would she was in the eyes would be kind of scary negative but they would be moving slightly this way network it wasn't demonic iPod watch demonic possessions every description of relevant this was not dumb moronic operational anything else like that she was unconscious of everything happening around the she did not bring sheet you can hold a candle right up to the amount it would flicker at all she did not breathe at all now they may have been settled leaving taking place that they couldn't detect with a candle but as far as anything obvious it was no great of muscles would initially become rigid she would miss a strength and then after watching free open of movements would become free and graceful then on coming out of vision she felt as if everything was in total darkness she could it was like she was in the black black place and she could distinguish anything she would have the ability to have supernatural strength how many of the story of the Bible the heavy Bible she would hold that didn't hold out for like an hour and I have to try this I just just to give yourself an example just hold the broom out and that you hold it out like this for a while after well you'll find it cute you just get tired she could do this for hours and shoot of point defects posted go to the exact pics but she wasn't looking at the Bible she would be looking ahead and she would be saying things of an moving the pages for the right takes in showing it should things would be revealed that she would be like in a dark cloud and need she would go into this vision and she would understand everything about a particular topic that should be confused about before it was supernatural things that took place last with you could not think of everyone following with me there's no way to fight the visions and later on will come through well with these excellent anesthesia is that what maybe what was going on those who want to deal with this question then Ellen White's plagiarized then Ella like plagiarize now get what is plagiarism copying someone else's work and claiming it is wrong now does anyone know when copyright really came in when the copyright really kick in does anybody know this this whole idea of copyright well only nineteen hundredths early nineteen hundreds this ID is not a come about that you could take your works and copyright and so that no one else could ask is that what is it that wasn't a big deal before that well it was hard to do mass printing before we really have the technology as the technology improves so you could really do mass screenings before that you wanted people to copy your stuff you understand you have to get it out there and so if they can get you eat what you had an copy it was expensive to copy and you wanted to material out there so this concept of copyright is fairly new and era wind in who works actually dealt with it like the great controversy she said look I don't remember exactly all of the works that I reference but you got to find them and write it in so that we can comply with copyright laws because it was a new thing that came in in the early nineteen hundreds beginning of the twentieth century saw guys like we found Ellen White to borrow from other office as they say you know if you if you if you want to borrow from one person and you get no reference that's plagiarism but if you use many is called research so I didn't ask you not think of housing that is why they should borrow from other will does one achieve white and she is sometimes the phraseology and their words to express her thoughts she says in some cases where a historian assault group together events us to afford in brief a comprehensive view of the subject was summarized details in a convenient manner his words have been quoted but in some instances knows specific credit has been given since this was the reason the quotations are not given for the purpose of fighting that ride as authority but because his statement affords are ready and forcible presentation of the subject unit writing the expansive views of those caring for the work of reforming out on time similarly use has been made of it published works of break that down for me what does that mean what does that mean since from great controversy what would she say if the feedback whether she sang in that statement I want you to think about our righteous one hand this ship she has what I see is driving our she has to write down the whole history of the Bible she doesn't have much time she's nearing the end of the life she wants to get it down she's gotten various pieces of it written in different places that she wants to get it down as quickly and as forcibly and healthy as possible what kind of education that you have very limited she gets third grade she goes a little further studies on her own but she has she is a prolific reader we know that as she him I sent again as forcibly and powerfully as possible as quickly as possible so then she has she has whose view of history and she's looking at books and cheesy somebody is right now will you and not in a great way is just the kind of woods the kind of phraseology she needs so she is 's cheek she takes those some of those woods and she writes it down now at that time was that a copyright infringement legally we show it was not we took at the lawyers and the lawyers took a look at us and said as the short state they may actually have a whole case basic risk auto wires and make sure that they can verify Ellen White plagiarized is with the lawyers it know she did not what she did was put quickly acceptable within the time she used it once but she has been in original and new ways to bring on you thought so you're following me so she do not bring up exactly the same filter they had but sometimes you use this phraseology so that she could write down very quickly what she believed God was expressing through history and all installation brought out special lessons that were not in those original with him and finally supple historical details sometimes she would rely on their works but the spiritual application she would often bring out on devotional thoughts so you are on the facts list than two percent of all of the written work was quoted or adapted from other sources sunny look at how much gain did she write ninety eight percent I had the students here was talking about another alternative .com and what you do is you turn it in and then it tells you how much you work a similar to other things that have been written by the student who tells me that she wrote his own original work as he I didn't discover this he came to me and says look I wrote on original work and it says that Michael Crystal why someone else's paper but why would that be if it was his own work is only some English words there's only so many thoughts on a particular topic and so it can seem like you'll same the same thing as someone else so I think is remarkable ninety eight percent of the work close all right then in most cases the use of other organs woods is less than five percent often publish books in litigating that in most cases down on notable exceptions the desire of ages some say outdated a comprehensive study of fifteen chapters it just took me equivalent of half a million dollars research to do this research they took fifteen author check this from desire of ages baby and compared that with all the books that she could possibly have consulted and they said mayonnaise thirty eight thirty one percent of everything that's out there is in some sense derived or expresses similar post to some of the books that she written they said the that at least sixty one percent we know was absolutely original it when following the soap in the desire of ages there is a greater meaning why because one is the desire of ages have been it has a lot of historical detail as to the great controversy that she needed to rely on she was she wanted to make sure remember she has a vision we can't do that later on she has a vision but nauseous to write this in words and she's not sure will the details out and you had a dream and nine you can't really remember it the next day Iraq was a united message and you have a prophetic dream are you more likely to remember the details absolutely but on a seventy something 's fuzzy when you're writing about it years later on in some new auto express this as accurately as possible when you are likely to be make sure that it corroborates with the Bible and with the evidence they would find me so this is what you have to go as she goes to some other works to make sure that as far as possible she thinks fit with what the original facts were she cannot remember everything and God is bringing to one of the things that in desire and it is one of the points that come out that all specific requests the devotional and spiritual applications finding those are specifically husband and sons of some of the factual details she relies on auto office all right the great controversy twenty decision sketches from the life of old sixth eleven percent and sixty Christ six percent Noel 's writings appeared to be largely derivative in the desire of ages this is from the half a million dollars study they do not lack and I don't if you can see that from the back but there's a keyword bid they do not lack of originality so asked this study took six years several research assistants working on it after six years he came to the conclusion this was Fred Feldman who is the chairman of the Department of Pacific Union College at the time of the school of the geology department six years later he comes this conclusion they do although this the Romans and elements they do not lack originality now is this unusual let's take a look at some Bible examples this is from the contemporary English version on one versus one to three notice what this says many people have tried to tell the story of what God has done among us but when you think it was inspired when he wrote the Gospel of Luke honey do you think it was inspired show me a heads up right now notice what you does he says many people tried to tell the story they run out so in other words was written down what we are being told by the ones who were then in the beginning and was one of those who wrote down what I can tell Locke is one of those right now would you be felt and told her to Peter that most likely so the Gospel of Mark is probably with the account written down that Peter gave off as a disciple he was right these you've seen and heard it and right at the end of the gospel of Mark business naked guy who leads from the gone when Jesus has been arrested and we think that that is young mock running out of the garden but anyway so we all need a place in history sonata versus the recall I was very beginning that's what happened so I made a careful what that would study out everything and then decided to write and tell you exactly what took place then Luke's study on all of those before you wrote down what Iraq he did and others outlook of what happens much on the gospel of Luke looks very similar to the gospel of Mark now he corrects any ads in medical terms what is needed zero doctors say that a writer mostly but he's studying it out and as a result there is a similarity seems that everything is being written anything this means that any rights his account under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit funny right now another example although any other examples of people in the Bible who may have quote copy something that had occurred before we do have an example in Isaiah thirty eight psi one one person on this site to do Isaiah thirty eight and then let's have a lawyer on the side sill entities taking Kings chapter twenty where I'd like to run what about writerly yet Satan Kings chapter twenty and then we go to read Isaiah thirty eight 's so just read me the first two verses in those days I was sick and you and is in prop the Son of Man was with him instead also who will save your house in order for you so that I cannot live then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall and pray for the Lord are right segmenting seven twenty is the is the most visible and possible for a right to edit as you read through these and we can do more of an analysis kind was five was new Alanis that thou almost identical on all this plagiarism in the Bible are not on use this for classes because it will not work with your teaches us that we operate under a different environment today you know we have to be so much more careful but back then it was perfectly acceptable to take inspired with anything explains in a bid to its that you had something that was a divine sword you can take that and applied that in your own writing serial and following me so this happened in the Bible and it happened in a long white is nothing unusual about it all right let's take the next question what about false prophecies now the prophecy one say that England would attack the United States and during the Civil War all right what about this one that Jerusalem would never be rebels and then there would be some alive in eighteen fifty six who when Jesus came back they would still be alive all right let's take a look at them one by one he has the original statement where it said that Ellen White said that England would declare war Sunderland jumped out of fortunate he is hard to read them to see if I can just make it so you can read that whole I saw this I can look at at this one right at the bottom this may be hard for you to read she has a statement she says when England does declare war all nations will have an interest on the run to serve and it will be a general war general confusion she's writing during the Civil War and she says it seems that England will declare war that England declare war not therefore she must be false right all right let's take a look at what she actually said is now the reason why bring this up is because you will find this kind of stuff on website now skeptical about what and they use this guy you see she may prediction edited not come true therefore she must be a false prophet but not as much he actually says England is studying whether it is best to take advantage of the present condition of our nation and to then shed to make war upon Shiism Wayne banana so what is she saying here she's use the wood studying away whether that means you she's thinking about it she's thinking about it and trying to sound out other nations she is and she should commence war aboard that she could would be weak in Holland and other nations would take advantage of a weakness other nations of making quietly active preparations for war and a hoping that England will make war without pollination for then they would improve the opportunity to be reduced on a for the advantages taken of them in the past and the injustice done to them a portion of the Queen 's subjects are waiting for a favorable opportunity to break the back England thinks it will pay she will not hesitate a moment to improve opportunities many ask you a question does that sound you in addition all one of the something very different she just wanted to clear war within a best-selling testimony for the Church volume one page two fifty nine thank you so so what this means that you are twenty one page two fifty nine so now let me ask you question based on this is as definitive England is gone to declare war no it is obviously a very tentative she's weighing her options she's thinking things through and then she's using this phrase while when England does nuclear war all nations will have an interest of the opposite she's she's using it in terms of the slope if it makes a statement declares war there will be general confusion but England decided not to ignore following the train of thought she waited up and in the end decided not to an analyte was not declaring that England would trying to quit war so let's take a look at some of the biblical situation a similar biblical situation Jeremiah chapter forty two and Mrs. ten through nineteen along this section and if someone can read that for me with a nice loud voice Jeremiah chapter forty two versus ten through nineteen all right who would like to do that's this raise your hand yes all right so notice in this prophecy is that a lot of conditional is attached because if if if is a lot of condition Elizabeth attached to it and then he seems to become fairly definite have you noticed what happens towards the him pretty definite about Egypt and what can happen to but is that at saying that this will definitely happen always advice on conditions so in the same way when Allen says look if this happens and if that happens in and she makes it what seems like a more definitive statement is looking at a biblical example we can see that it's still conditional anyone following so that's how we would understand the statement what about the phrase that she made in eighteen fifty one all Jerusalem would never be buildup has old Jerusalem being rebuilt is an ass it has it has been rebelled so again it looks like that what she said was false but we have to remember the context in the context she was not specifically writing about the bricks in the morning when she was referring to all dues would be rebuilt being built that what was she thinking of what people think of when I think about Jerusalem being built up again they think about God 's people they think about the Temple be rebuilt as that with which some Christians ought today is to be the rebuilding of the Temple what that really saying is that Israel will become the place that everybody is drawn to it will become the center of older religions again and when she was saved by all Jerusalem would never be rebuilt she is saying that Jerusalem will not become the central donations again in one following so the context is clearly not about the bricks in the morning it's about this political influence everyone was writing against the Zionist state in Palestine as a fulfillment of prophecy in the September eighteen fifty vision she saw that it was a great era for administer believe that if they do need to go to all Jerusalem and think of AppleWorks Internet before the Lord comes for those who think that now get to go to Jerusalem will have their minds there any means will be withheld from the cause of prison truth to get themselves and others there another with it was so caught up in this philosophy that we over all Jerusalem and we have to get because Lorraine Ehrenfeld everything else up that they were willing to sacrifice only money and he needs to do it and so she said don't waste your time and money that's not we God 's focus is what she writes absolutely it's all how you twist the words so so people twist the words of makers or something else what about the statement you know I was shown in the company present at this conference eighteen fifty six said the angel some officer Daryl food for worms some as subjects of the seven last plagues and some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus now it seems at face value again that had a look she made a prediction that some of those people would be alive when Jesus came and some would live through the plagues and yet they get so therefore some people conclude she must be rock again I say they must understand prophecy it was still with him I think it best I could get the this was a conditional prophecy it was written it was written because he wanted God wanted Ellen White to have that sense of urgency and they could and being a they could of been there when Jesus came but it was conditional just like she said I forget this was in like eighteen eighty one she's reflecting back on her experience with the passion that she had that she believed Jesus was going to have come before then she said the angels of God and then Mister Justin and represent time as very long to see if you're like this is very short all right that's it has always been presented to me it is true that China's continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message I'll say it did not appear as soon as we hoped but has the world although long failed to elicit a response what issues that never never the patient may remember that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike con additional and I forgot to give a reference to start it was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be the last delay God is not designed that his people Israel should wonderful fortieth in the wilderness even got one of them are judging him it's just going wonderful forty years and that he will die out enough that was not his intention he promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan and establish them as a wholly healthy people adults and that was for Scrooge went not in one his essay in the Bible Hebrew instances because of their unbelief their hearts were filled with mongering rebellion and hatred and he could not fulfill his covenant with it did he promise that he would take them to the promised land using it today going not well have we been promised we would go into the promised land yes have we gone and know what is the course asked our unbelief before he has been unbelievable rebellion shed on ancient Israel from the land of Canaan the same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan United States with the promises of God at fault is the unbelief the loneliness consecration and strife among the most progress professed people that is kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years in others why is it that an innocent gone home to Chris about disunity strife and unbelief idea I look at this and I have broken folks I know it's true we could've gone home by now with still stuck here because speech be just didn't we we can pull together and to preach God 's love to the world and RSI we see examples in the Bible of conditional prophecies we actually dealt with two of these this morning and so I'm going to jump down onto one is Jeremiah and great section their winnings down upon his house no one is for Samuel Winter music is given to Eli we haven't jumped in second Chronicles chapter thirty four and verse twenty eight second Chronicles chapter thirty four and was twentieth now when I'm not to do in in the next section so that you know is undiscovered fields questions on the show you some statements within a deal with some of the unusual statements made animals in a field questions in the next section so this one I just want to meet the challenges everyone with me we discover and meet the challenges second Chronicles thirty four and verse twenty eight with Scully hit will and will not go in users all eyes will you will will display on the site for the drop in working all right which came with us because of the neck who was at this anyone know where I did and he galled peacefully to his death and sleep with his fathers and was everything good is that what happened in his life it did not consult was the Bible wrong was this prophecy rock she disobeyed you remember the situation all right what happened yet so I just saw you went into battle against the Lord 's command even when off foreign heathen we understand that he wasn't supposed to battle he then anyway and as a result he did not suffer the blessing I mean even not experienced the blessing all the fulfillment of this prophecy why not it was conditional on his obedience is following me so when certain things also makes statements made that seem to be categorical presented that sound pretty clear absolutely but people don't live up to the conditions on a fulfill not so we have to recognize this in the Bible all right what about this constant daily online have a medical condition of this comes about because what happened when Ellen White was a young go yes somebody threw a rock and which I don't advise for any person they threw a rock at her she had a head injury she was she was adamant she should wait until basically for a while and so people do later on while in the teams what happened was being she had epileptic fits or hysteria you know there's all these kinds of postulations about what happened to her as a teenager because the rock was thrown at her as a kid you will follow the arguments saw the rocks drawn this causes something to happen and she has some kind of offense and seizures and as a result these all the trances these are the visions and she thinks that it's from God but it's really just a medical condition follow the argument right so let's take a look closely this is pure speculation that there is any connection between the two met a colleague it's been shown that less than five percent on his injuries have anything to do with later epileptic seizures old Wolf that so anything else less than five percent so they are speculating out of five percent instead of ninety five percent of speculation secondly when the skeptics get together and I write different papers on what this many this website on a great phase whether on theory and ten right was probably the first one to come up with us I and so he sticks his nose he speculated what it was in and out of medical doctors and gone in and speculated it could be this conditional that condition the fact is there is no evidence that she suffered from any kind of medical condition how do we know that we happily statement with assurance level one she has these versions that she remarkable details and am not delusional and inhumanity visual person I have I I and and some of them a more interesting than others convicted to come to evangelistic meetings for some reason and they are not your halfway through the evangelistic meeting and someone will stand up and start getting a message from the law that and it's is just kind of wacky you know why the stars spoke to me and like I will think you would someone in schools a star outside and then something like the original we had weird one guy who came to one of our programs he argues that he stood up into his print times a week and we're having played together and suddenly came to the front he started speaking in the schedule voice and then he fell down and he believed that Jesus was coming back in two thousand and five well I guess he's not a true prophets so you know they are delusional people I dealt with delusional people often nothing in LA once life gives the appearance of a delusional person she was very coherent she supposed was a schizophrenic she wasn't hysterical she said she spoke very clearly she had coherence for similar following link there was nothing that indicated that this was delusional for the most value on human I believe is the life of the life itself she was unselfish bright and unaffected in later life and each was never treated how do you have doubts with epilepsy anybody got the as I have in my family and as I look at effect one of my nephews has had from the edge of sweet innocent barely impacted his life now they are people who have mild epileptic fits every now and again on all actions have been seizures and so they have VCs is a renowned Internet are able to live normal lives but what was happening in the early stages of her life life is as a teenager with these visions occurring on and often basis whether absolutely she had constant visions during the early part of the life and thought if that was an epileptic seizure it would've left unfortunately mental impairment and there is no indication in effect later on in her life she says I feel better now than I've ever felt in my whole life and she was an eighties you know she says I've got great how things are going well I and so there is no indication that there was any mental impairment are often people who suffer from delusional thinking of other things are selfish they focus on themselves in a view down to this guy if uselessly to medical doctors one of these people like that are often focused on themselves they advantage very narrow point of view missing not an NL I thought the weight of the evidence that's reminiscent we basing it on the weight of the evidence clearly says that Ellen White had no medical condition if she did have a traumatic injury as a child but there is no evidence that it impacted on how overall life and she was bright saying funny engaging throughout her life there's no evidence that she had had a major trauma and especially for the fact that it was never treated any questions on that debt get down one ever deliberately falsify or high information will for instance people are ridiculous with their people his people in my seventh lucky with this book like Calderwood to the little flock and in their ally made some statements about the shut door and they later on those statements were missing she must have deliberately taken amount will what's the real story the real story was she didn't deliberately take the math she is the manuscript she had available at the time and she put together a book and sit this is as much as I can remember what I richly wrought and she put up half of it should put that out they will later on Sunday found the original and they said look the original list of differences between the original and between what she put out now that must've taken information apple deliberately falsified it was she wrote a response as South and included that out with the original picture published the original text and included responses at the time we were traveling she's to travel all over the country we didn't have access to the original documents we thought that what we had was the original one and in the end she says it wasn't that we found it is a baby and she got hold of the original she says Jared is you can clearly see that my views have not changed and she explained to use we will look at that in the next edition what if she believe about the shut door theory she was never hiding anything if you e-mail like she's just so honest she just puts about that here is you know that you have an accusation when it is lighted he has what I believe you have a question she would just tell you exactly how it happened is just this incredible honesty in when she puts anything else anything out she's never hiding anything you can access on everything that she has written you can go and go to the own lightbulbs and you can ask is anything that is written all of the published writings are easily searched I than the estimate is there anybody else is there any other warmth that you can have current access to anything of any other will we have a searchable database where you can look up anything that they never say no it's amazing to me that what that searchable database of anything she's ever said they saw few things that people can pick you if I had a searchable database of everything I never will endlessly imagine what they can come up with my late signing this is not just the stoppage is written in a publish with my letters to my golf friends all imagine that this was put into the searchable database your document so the fact that you can take everything that I was written and you can search and you can put it out they and the salt little that people can pay gap is in that remarkable to you just astounding so what about this one Ellen White's writings in a tent finishing it at the writing sunny weather paragraphs taken out the various things that work adjusted yes that will but always under the direction and often in consultation with others the changes were often mining your grandmother or wording will come to to why God allows that I was sometimes entire paragraphs were deleted or changed notice that many troubling to send you but honestly folks and this believe in progressive inspiration that means I profit grows in his although understanding of God 's will and purpose cute do you agree with that that means that although chooses constant my understanding of truth will change over time in a fun and profit does that make sense did Jesus understanding of his mission grow as he grew older that absolutely and as a three -year-old you think he fully understood his mission will not be grew as he grew and selling the same way Ellen White him romancing your five favorite silly when she's referring to the Holy Spirit what pronoun missions it's she uses the pronoun it but later on in life what issues she did she start teasing me and him what happened to understanding of the Holy Spirit 's role group dual following it so in order to help us understand this we need to understand what inspiration this is inspiration of mechanical and also let's just say I'm inspiring you what shenanigan I get Joshua 's become a profit yes so now I am and I become God this is scary already all right side note account and I'm going to give to Joshua my message now is two ways I can give you my message through a dream or vision reveal it to him or I can say okay just a granule pin they were just in a gram obtained yeah and you'll get it I'm get them your hands and have you write it down exactly I know my inspiration was the Bible written like that there is no indication the Bible that it was written like this one will do what we mean by Vogel Vogel means the specific words that are used with those words that God guide the exact selection of words that we use sometimes sometimes give me an example Moses totally fair he was given some Wednesdays beginning the most obvious example what was ten Commandments okay nine additionally the ten Commandments were mechanical they were written by God with his finger at the version that Moses had he had to quickly rewrite them because they broke then yeah all right so so is to some extent it was you know you can have the mechanical Vista son extended vocal but most of the Bible seems to being God inspires the board seems healed himself and the people right down those thoughts and they then put them in their own words I don't believe that God just impresses people know some people wake up and say hi I think I had a message from the Lord this morning I know how did you have this message from the Lord went to see a limp wrist I don't the Bible writers were just embraced I think they were impressive alright so he does she has him on White's understanding of biblical inspiration which means the simulation as noted about himself isn't the Bible was written by an spy amendment is not God 's mode off thought and expression it is that of humanity God is the right site is not represented concise such expressions not like a dog does not put himself in words in logic and rhetoric on trial in the Bible the writers of the Bible where God 's hand man not his pain in other words he inspires the man not Ian 's not up the pen itself look at the different writers she says it is not the words of the Bible that are inspired that the no man NetWare inspired inspiration and not on the man's words or his expressions but on the man himself who under the influence of the Holy Ghost it's still inspiration is imbued with thoughts but the woods racing the inquiry is on the individual my how do we know that in the Bible for instance what does what's mocks favorite word immediately he just loves doing everything right away you can tell Mark Vicente that's why he's running with God and correct so you need to you you know you get something and everything that Jesus has immediately that's not necessarily saying that that's God 's thought yes to write down what he needed me but that's one of his favorite words of mock and it just slips in our a lot of what God is the author here was written by human hands and American styles of different books it presents the characteristics of the several writers good friends revealed are all given by inspiration of God yet they are expressed in the woods off men the infinite one by his Holy Spirit has shed light into the minds and hearts of his servants he is given dreams and visions symbols and figures and dolls to the riches of that's revealed had themselves embody the thought in human language faith I live by page ten and one following the thought so when Ellen White doesn't write things exactly the way you would like to see it written always judging sometimes words in a mystery God 's with money that is soon as I say that I have to be careful right is what happens this two kinds of people out there today these literalists who like to go bike you don't make sure every word is just the way it should be and then they're all likely rationalists they rationalize everything that the Bible in one wife's is a way because they want to make it suit their lifestyle you will following me so so we new type when you careful to respect the inspiration of what God has done without becoming just literalists May God into the woods under the skip of the next quotes identify so pitched in just how I see it revelation is when God speaks through the events he reveals himself through visions dreams through Jesus Christ through Angels and through history inspiration is when the profits themselves are inspired by the Holy Spirit and then they witness to the minute revelation in the message from the people then when we come down to reading the swinging elimination through prayerful study of God 's word the holy sword then applies that truth on God 's word to our lives such as what happens the Holy Spirit through visions and dreams through Jesus Christ through Angels into history works then the profit through themselves in spite of his witness to the segment of Revelation and how it inspired how the profits and spiky was Williams inspired me God leads into God breathed into it and then we come along we suddenly got mission in a setting where God without great so what is the common elements across this the Holy Spirit the always way the Bible is now one of them make any sense to you is by the Holy Spirit everybody falling that's the all the possible way it will make sense so when people write things like fifty contradictions and look at how and why didn't say these words correctly like let's just get some honesty to the same unfollowed me just be honest with not make a big deal out of this I solve for instance one guy writes rights the airline said you wrote to me and say that they with thirty eight bids forty minutes sorry in a sanitary but they were actually on the thirty eighth you must not be a profitable when you think doesn't really matter you have any medical using a light was envisioned going again three I merely thought so she she relies on horrendous standing as you put the whole woods what do you think a message to that man was right on absolutely that you have all the details right about how many this know I'm not the deal with the with valid the one issue quite in order to his life view while the reasons why this contradictions and Alan White she's kind expressed in human language why does he say this contradictions this is what he says what she says sounding speaking of his wife to urge the party one of the people who are tardy people who are slow to get off the mark is taken by the prompt for those the zealous ones to judge them all the mock sign up with some people take when and what has the Sangha a look on we wanted to go to cut out all this week in a cut out all that we just cannot live on pure air and water are so summed it all the prompt and what she says to caution the problems this and this was the English as once is taken by the party as an excuse to remain too far behind so it went right to one group and says look don't do this when the other groups that well hallelujah and lastly unhappier to worry about that anymore and she's writing to one group and the other group since I've last that's just the counsel you needed you understand what's happening something always applying the opposite counsel to realize that as I said this was a real problem is true that should find right to the group of works and tell them about a faithless system that's exactly what happened so now that people get worried that I won't than Alan White eat meat now we have no use of course in fact originate out one evening unclean meat and filled our children otherwise write names cannot be unclean Nietzsche very clearly stopped eating unclean meat and then she stopped eating meat but that was the was some time periods when it seems like she would allow me on a typo and should probably add that money shorting certain extreme situations that are very rare so without you run against me she was sometimes extremely rarely placed in situations where it made it difficult to eat any of that was unlike eminently practical all right absolutely and she and to access the Fellowship tenure need meat and still be an advanced you can do anything allow the north side of our sending it flying when she was in Australia wishing bad need from the table and there is no evidence that shed unclean meat although can write made this allegation and it seems totally unfounded is nothing to back it up a lifestyle was definitely vegetarian than Alan White live up to the lifestyle live up to what you write is enough it it isn't that all right to know what makes sexual mistakes and readout but that yes there are these minor factual quote errors and she has high believe it's the same of the Bible the Bible is infallible with regard to salvation but not necessarily with regard to all factual details and I hope this doesn't scare some year you believed in global inspiration this may be frightening but if you believe God is infallible has God given us everything we need to know about salvation Bible is infallible it is with regard salvation and what funny with regard to salvation the Bible is infallible but there are other things for instance Matthew Matthew says that Jesus was sold for thirty shekels of silver as you say prophesied that does anyone know this is Jeremiah Jeremiah did not prophesy that Casey did Zechariah 's Zechariah correctly that he mistakenly says the word Jeremiah do you think I should give up on Matthew because he accidentally uses the wrong nine what you think absolutely not and so we could go on for Samuel sixteen percent in eleven saw the same way there are slips off the continent in nine Ellen White surface and it was just John the one case you haven't David was the eighth son of Jesse in another case you have that he was the seventh son of Jesse is a big deal absolutely not it's not critical so close to one that is distant each of these cases are not I'm not going to go into much much more information check as we need to close each of these situations I believe that Ellen White was not in contradiction that one of these challenges are from depth charges and that she always pointed to Jesus Christ and that the central infallible part of the writing is when she listened Jesus amen amen and I take the looks very seriously I think we've done a great disservice in the administered when we have neglected the writings of Ellen White I think we are listening too much to the well and we left behind the great gift that God is given I know I I fund for the women into his and and and I'll take some questions in the next section we got a deal with questions or lives father Jack wanted from name this valuable gift that we begin forgive us for listening to all of the accusations that are out there the falsehoods rarely load all of this is but Shaq help us to see the grand plan the unfolding of the great controversy the incredible counsel been the movie of the Holy Spirit as God has spoken through these powerful words and help us to believe that you have given these things to us in Jesus name amen

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