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Strange Statements of Ellen White Explained

Alan Parker


Alan Parker

Professor of missions and evangelism and director of Pierson Institute of Evangelism at Southern Adventist University




  • January 19, 2008
    2:45 PM
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will you think section when we got here and yell it's trying to get everybody in where we can and we may have to when often using that the PowerPoint so will last thank you with sending around from the last presentation I did if you want to pal points I can send us see the one has some graphic images on it that I probably can't send it out but the others on when I disguise you I can send that one to use such challenges and analytes writings so you can have that information if you like it right in this one is similar more interactive we going to try and deal with the questions that are out they are knitting to be some response another share with you some really useful information some some things on not up-to-date India so I'll just add to it but messenger of the Lord by the Douglas has a very useful section sections at the end the first parts deal with the great ministry of LOI to what she was like but in the last section he deals with the criticisms and so you've had some issues I'd encourage you to get this book you also can find some information available online at IL and us White .com I don't like a friend I think .org whose job Lakers from Southern Adventist University has some great historical information from people who lived during yellow lights on time and immaterial so there's a lot of things that he's written that he's got up on his website and done in the Ellen White estate itself has some great information I would greatly go the poorest if I was looking for information before you go to places like Ellen White exposed because they have a tendency of missing with you my I mean honestly there's an agenda and the agenda says we got to try and push a certain way of thinking and so I would encourage you to do that too I go there first before you go to Eileen 's regarding the other sites first before you go to the skeptical sites all rights lips only ready to begin I know we have no space do we like the reader can we otherwise we can squeeze in you guys listen I yeah let's sell its backup I don't need this right now Jason is a few extra extra chairs that he had a sitdown middle aisle for this nice to hear all right similarly common in the Back Bay all right let's begin with what a breath by the God we want to thank you that you have provided a way for us to make sense all the difficulties help us to take into account the context of what is written and to be able to understand that to the best of our ability we ask this in Jesus name amen by the Zogby interactive so if you have a question like you say your question that I never repeated for the sake of the recorder and if you don't have any questions out jump into some of the information I have this kind of risky as I do know what you can ask and I I probably do not most of what you asked but if I dog bed maybe someone else in the in the audience will die to know that I have the answers I then find the right questions so we can all learn up to whatever questions you have and will trust that the Lord leads us on the start of the back first yes all right I have thought of as a way to administer the basis for there I did a once in a profit is falsely prophesied something that the nonprofit from then on I know that administer you ask me say that when an essay is that if people say something and it doesn't come to pass according to the Bible and that we look at that this morning and Jeremiah if the engine running he has the same thing in the profits insomnia doesn't come to pass your tendency is to say this is not likely to be a prophet from the law but that's only one of the tests awareness of more like essays they are at least four main kiss and we looked at six scarce this morning by which you have to judge the profits he can just do it on one test that that's all right that's that's a fascinating one that it looks like a prophet comes along and and deliberately lies and so how do we deal with that well first of all it's a unique situation on the net it makes for a great seven I preached on it once but it's a unique situation we obviously should be give about going general principles from a unique situation second thing we dissuade several other places in the last seminar where prophecies were made that they were conditional and so they didn't come to pass they have to be careful away some anyway you got this unique kind of situation where the guy lives in any other profit loses his life I mean this is one of those strange things that show that people weren't really listening to the Lord saw that guy is there a question that arises out of that yeah I I I really think that the second profit was not acting on the diary not alone at all and the first profit the challenge that he has he did not live up to the little that he was given in the second profit to me he was a heretic right I think God used the donkey to let you know the guy lied in an easy and look what happened so many lost their life even if he was kind enough to go and pick up his body or I yes I is less like a is and is that really is the original context in terms of Ellen White thinking on the question is what about this phrase the less alike to the gray light the original context XE comes from relationship the twelfth Revelation chapter twelve refers to this woman standing on the moon and the moon is of course a reflection of the sun so the moon reflects the sun so what is it that the woman is standing on what is it that reflects the sun who is the son of righteousness Christ and what is the lesser lights that reflects the greater light the Bible so it within a alliance original understanding all prophecy was a reflection of Jesus Christ is a one following a Jesus Christ is the greater life he is the son of righteousness in the Bible that the woman says unless the judge the judge stands on the Bible and the Bible reflects the greater like Jesus Christ so if you take that within that context in L a life in the annual list like point to the great alike was that she was a lesser lights pointing to Jesus Christ now she did that by pointing people back to the Bible is no doubt about it right to point people back to the Bible but really she was pointing to Jesus Christ and one for what that phrase means relationships for next I was in very good and excellent I mean within that within the context because prophecy points to Jesus Christ the Bible which is written by the stood approximately with his third prophecy that with in John's thinking included his brethren the prophets so we could go into one event revelation nineteen but the idea rest it included his brethren the prophets of the Bible is also written by the spirit of prophecy so all of the prophets of the Bible what was the role the point to Jesus and us like John the Baptist said behold the Lamb of God it takes when sensible set of phrase the less likely the medical greater light review first of the spirit of prophecy pointed to Jesus Christ but it doesn't through the Bible but it is up to find tricky line that we can have to walk yet right so the one way is to start cutting up and dividing the Bible and a long white into that's inspired that's not inspired you know what could happen of Jonah wow that really wasn't inspired at either the guy who did that psyche UN women listen to a settlement and end of preexistent knowledge on is not an spy site when Honeycutt John around his Bible consultants five yummy wanted and inspired Bible but it went to another judge the next week and a dog books and Janice 's annexes and so on they were very inspired that and so he got those thoughts out and it went to another judge and they set off a log book of James is a book of straw on site at that product is you what he's going to Bible and so we went through and delete it straight we had lived with a compass that was his inspired Bible so the challenge can be that we end up trying to cut and splice I believe that God inspires the posts and there are and how does he do it he does it through we had a diagram last time he does a true revelation what is revelation revelation is when God reveals himself how does he do it what forms a revelation dreams visions our Jesus Christ history so God reveals himself through specific things the way the prophet says I saw this I say wow that's like divine insight union on insane iso- invasion is happening to meet divine insight went up Robert is describing Monday details of how long the address should be then I never say what that's that's a more technical detail this is not like looking into the throne room of heaven but I'm still say that the prophets came on the South is inspired are you following that a prophet is inspired sometimes the words that they use they use their own expressions that's what we read last time but the prophet himself in spite of we need to begin full about cutting try to cut parts and intent pots out it but you understand what I'm saying does that answer of this okay let me quickly explain the difference in bubble and forth inspiration bubble inspiration means every single word is inspired for inspiration means the original thought is inspired but the woods that are used to express that all the all the profits on so for instance sometimes I might say things a little differently that's why you get it Ellen White's writings which edited because the woods themselves and uninspired she was inspired with the basic concepts are yes and and not notice what was saying that the question is about to listen the great ally to get notice of missing about that we are not saying that Ellen White should be put about the Bible if Allen Y disagrees with the Bible just on getting rid of I gave it available why I noticed that with my Bible not all the advanced doctrines come from a lot they come from the Bible that's what I'm than a holds of the Bible is the all only rule of faith and practice but at the same time I treat what everyone has to say very seriously because I believe God spoke to her and he spoke through right he has some questions of the one you talked about the shut door theory particularly right against a very good question that Ellen why believe that Jesus is going to come in eighteen forty four years she did add we have to remember that she did not receive a him visions and so afterwards right so I have it and when was the great disappointment October twenty two so October twenty two years issue standing out they does she understand what's going on no she doesn't she is venting and I get really else looking at the clouds waiting for Jesus to come does he come now at least not in the way that she expects and so on the later on does she receive the version does anyone know if this vision was about she sees three platforms and it when these two visions they can attempt to get to your buddy when she sees three platforms and the people of Ghana marching up on these metal one of the three platforms represent the three Angels messages and so she sees Surrey has she sees these and get a jump on a platform yet so she sees people moving through these three platforms and as they move people are falling by the wayside and now marching onto the kingdom of God and that clearly in the end it represents the evidence we would initially is just a pathway she's is going on later on the three platforms help you to identify the three Angels messages as you see that people are falling off only a few make it to the heavenly city she understands is a disappointment but they will still make it to have that's the beginning of the understanding of what took place there so now they are certain statements that that in the prophetic shots originally that were done it was a mistake in the prophetic charts originally and she says things like God held his hand over the mistake so now that seems like wow that's really strange why would God hold his hand over a mistake once and really is not such an unusual think God was allowing humans to to unfold according to prophecy revelation chapter two was an indication of what would take place during this time does anyone no relation to you never once thought about yeah I scroll John is eating the scroll and it is sweet in his mouth better in his stomach was that the experience of the believers in eighteen forty four did God allow that experience is God sometimes allow things to happen to you so when she uses this expression I believe she is saying that God allowed it to happen it's just a website who did you have another question following on or I get yes yes that's oh that's a very good example very good example Jesus allows his disciples to think what he's going to be crowned wide because he rides in on a donkey who rides in on a donkey according to prophecy kings do so that they disciples out of their mind happy Yanez sitting in their arguing he's about to be crucified they're arguing about his vanity appointed in the kingdom nonentity chief finance officer nonentity the right-hand man I get to be the brightest that I realized that everything is going to guest on their eyes blinded yet which is another example that we haven't scriptural way their eyes a blind warped Emmaus Luke chapter twenty four there on the way to mass and assist he sees himself so they wouldn't recognize him and so does God sometimes it is absolutely we should be surprised right yes next question comes you always want one right back to go through the disappointment so they would go back to the Scriptures is that what happened as a result of this there was an incredible set of Bible studies we often called in eighteen is an eighteen foot forty eight conferences and that when it went back to the to the Sabbath conferences of that time they just study the Bible study the Bible this on realizing how you know the Bible doesn't teach about the state of the date like like we thought it fit in the Bible doesn't teach on this you know which day is the Sabbath is reported that and so they never really grappled with these things they came up with whole new understandings because of the disappointment they realize they could only depend on the little guy yes in the back plagiarized object yet one of these one of the things that we dealt with the last session was we looked at the charge of plagiarism we discovered all the list until the Saints of the work was borrowed or derived of the published work that means how much was not ninety eight percent have you try to write a paper in which you do not rates that you got several resource sourcebooks out for you and you try to write a paper would be written and you try not to use the working in .net is really high you know you and you try to make your own words that is really difficult because you just find yourself naturally using those phrases on the listen to the same all who work has this borrowed nature and I think we although play that at times and that the largest example we have his desire of ages and about thirty one cents based on calculations is probably derived from other wolf is about twenty three books she was a prolific reader but it even after a steady way they did a study on it after looking at it for six years and looking at how she used the basic or use a job which still showed originality of thought even though she may occasionally have used the works are yet more historical content that you cannot rely on it I have and I taken yes and in what he's saying is that innovative there was so much misunderstanding even back then that you needed a profit in order to bring about a correct understanding I'd say even more so a prophet was predicted to come for the end times and that we know is that in the remnant church you you need to have the sport the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophecy and so we needed a message to help us understand what the Bible was truly say yes okay moons of Jupiter quick guy refresh over everybody else there was a time in a language and vision and she saw I think seven moons and easements was circulating a planet it was a sea captain then by the name of Joseph Banks and so he knew Sonny about astronomy you and I think there at the same time and they were astounded that she knew how many moons was circulating around Jupiter you go back to the original she does not actually say which planet are what's she just happens to state your that I see seven moons and they assume that she missed me that she speak directly that it becomes a confirming evidence for IR signals by some law right you can correct me if I'm wrong to a day they both say look this is that this is the Lord speaking to her she knows nothing about astronomy therefore this must be the Lord so they become the confirming evidence of cause we find out later on with more superior technology that they are not just seven minutes what she therefore wrong while as she doesn't say it's Jupiter and be maybe God gave her that you and and look how far back where she noticed a C7 she select what they could see if they knew astronomy he gave her that vision in order to convince to the convent thanks a lot for all the vision all right so that explains the descendents any other questions yes I was actually okay so the question is how much should we teach our children on the extra details that Ellen White's supplies and that I would say I was feel comfortable in always going back to the Bible you know that that's the most comfortable position but do we tallying the Bible story got kids do we sometimes have to liven it up maybe women on that interview and tried reading to them from the book of Leviticus cannot you need to be able to put it it's a child's language to help them understand to make the story life I don't think that there's anything wrong in adding the details as they get all the helping them to understand and to go back and to read the Bible takes for the South that's what you really wanted to get them into the Bible that will clarify their thinking and so adding the extra details from LI items it is wrong but always we do back to the Bible right so so you that's what you want to do you want to take it back to the Bible have been rebutted in order to help the ready grasp the story you don't have to tell some of the details so so that's what I even do if I take the Bible story and I I will read it in the Bible and then I'll tell it in my own words to my kid but I find their imagination is so great that what comes out the other end is pretty unique anyway yeah that's right you will have been lots of extra material to add to the presence that we sometimes we go that exegetical and sometimes we isogenic oh anyway it's a very very weak where we used to say this theology in some obligee of the fine lines all right on the questions that we have just the that the copyright issues already came about at the beginning of the twentieth century late nineteen century and so before that people weren't expected to give these copious references because it was like giving authority Ohrid is as you say to those to those office and so it unlikely we read a quote from great controversy she says sometimes I did not give specific reference cause I was interested in using those writers as an authority but be I simply use a woods in order to ask for us the things I've seen and it had put together in a good manner all right yes side but acceptable theory shows what Alan White believed immediately after eighteen forty four like those of a fellow evidence she believed that those who had rejected the Adventist message would be lost and like many of those around she was caught up in the idea that you really didn't need to do evangelism because young people are going to be said to them and the version number of the past grade up to heaven those wanting a decide you're ready except that the light that was given to them later on she came to understand from the book of Revelation that there is also an open door and Revelation five speaks of an open one is an open door into heaven and that salvation was still open for many people she always believed that those who had rejected the light of the Adventist message that original like that in a special since it was a shut door against the so she didn't believe that she didn't change that she says later on this one of the manual believe that salvation can go to anyone else in fact in a vision God help correct some of that thinking that she had along with other millwright and venison I believe she's a very honest about it put it down said this is what I believe and so I don't have a big problem with those who say she changed her mind I think God changed change their understanding and there was a shut door but it was also notable tonight I think differently she used the wrong words at times and she had run logic and expression and so she may have come up with things that later on with progressive understanding she can't understand of this inspection would God say and so I see I see a definite development and understanding of the Godhead I see growth over a period of time in understanding of salvation over a period of time so so I can if we see growth that that's the way I like that she she deliberately said to people do some people he said look I will take out unwise deal of history that's what one does it all any other historian and she wrote back and said no you cannot say that I am not trying to be an historian I am trying to give the view of all spiritual history as it would be the outlining of history from a spiritual perspective and she wasn't trying to say that she was perfect in all historical facts following you and you want to get one chance and it is a very low or very good example Nathan says the idea be wonderful if you build the temple I imagine a few of the profit of the King since I like to build the Temple using this wonderful idea but later on God says no Nathan David has too much blood on his hands he counseled the Temple salt yes I do profits grow in the understanding absolutely other questions what about Ellen White and volcanoes Piniella why have a really unusual view all volcanoes anyone heard of that see what what is our understanding of volcanoes today constant of how what we what what illegal what's happening underneath the earth 's tectonic plates right and as those move so things come out from underneath and that helps create these volcanoes sent me this a lot more movement a lot more Croatia and a close that however Ellen White's says what she has what she believed about volcanoes understood to pick it up from here she says Sarah some of the things that she wrote about the writings contain eight relevant concepts that are being debated since they first appeared in eighteen sixty four the list includes formation of cold bears his links to the flood secondly called produces oil system be motivated that then subterranean fires off fueled by the burning of both coal and oil then water adds added to the subterranean fires produces explosions and thus of earthquakes and earthquakes and volcanic action a link to give those products of these underground fires with a sing-along the ride will live with this computer but it does sound good of men by both limestone and iron ore connected with the burning coal oil then deposits in areas involved in the superheat and in deposits of coal and oil up down after the subterranean fires had died out but some people of last events are desperate to feel as I get yet even that of anything like that but you should ever than in the sex but I knew where does it come from well something was a well dispute comes from John Weasley 's favors some in the cause and cure of earthquakes but they're all striking differences so I don't believe that she just grabbed it from John Wesley so is this scientific argument for this note of will find this half confirmed Ellen White's observations but those concerns geology of call documented that subterranean fires and called with our ignited to spontaneous combustion resulting in the mounting of nearby rocks that are classed as C-note volcanic deposits in other words some scientists and I could read you some other ones have gone in and she said you know what this election pretty accurate description of some volcanic will skew no volcanic activity you following me so was Ellen White rock now she was just describing a unique phenomena she wasn't necessarily describing all volcanoes and so is achieving growth now by some signs but it doesn't apply to all volcanoes and she never said that event all right very good day on which it seems that some races is still alive today kind of thing so I had one guy in Africa is a real racist hopefully none of you know him anyway so one guy never guaranteed he would tell me there is some rice is alive today that are a combination of kind of in a monkey man and that's just ridiculous that Ellen White uphold that we'll all the races connected to Adam JR Paul is a biblical principle absolutely I mean this was nonsense so it is a gift from one era some statements in a unlike the speak about amalgamation of man and beast now they are two ways to read that there is amalgamation of man with man and a beast with beast another with it was some scientific may be experimentation but it was definitely an intermingling the most obvious level who married governance is intended that the specific meanings of idols think about the sons of God in the notice of Mansoor xenophobe amalgamation what is amalgamation made by mixing together so on the one hand you have the simplest way to understand this is that Ellen White is speaking of a mixing together on different kinds of human beings and different kinds of animals I happen to believe that it was genetic experimentation we think with a spot with genetics now I think they had genetic experimentation with different animals and they were producing monstrosities that happens to be my opinion I don't of any biblical evidence for it but it's what I like to think the first Jurassic Park was pre- flood all right it's unending as foreign site hopefully did a good job yet there are couple of things Mimi CFI I probably can find it all ten but there are a couple of things in the yes she used she don't use the word such as the wood on two other occasions other than this and she is that metaphorically comparing faithful being believers and well-being and she is that to describe the origin of poisonous plants and that you regularities in the biological wealth so does it seem like she was really referring to the amalgamation of man and beast was simply the mixi now all different human on all these different human groupings as well as different plants and maybe genetic modifications which make sense to you to me it's very clear in Hollywood for the writings the site she wasn't saying that monkey and then got together but that man was monkeying around with man and with animals you understand you right plan is wanting around with the genetics right as opposed to necessarily combining man and beast I don't think that that's what's that's referring to I realize some disagree with me on our right I'm saying this as a reason wise I say cannot be that because at Ellen White clearly sold them run the hood of old humanity yearns evidencing every old from Adam we will come for managing never seem to have a lowly estimation of any race that that is alive today no I don't believe because we're all world part off of Adam is just an example of amalgamation a Seventh-day Adventist marrying an unbelievably all right that's that that's in the broad sense and uncles are not monkeyed around with Eugene 's all right any other questions at the back is I don't think is wise to just have devotions with Ellen White eye she never advocated that she she advocated that we should we should use the writings by all means you can read the testimony she put a lot of counsel about reading the testimony but she was twenty people back to the Bible and that she was actually quite critical of people who just use the quarter from the pool but she wanted the Bible preached and so I I find it useful to always have the two together the just and rely on one as as some he said earlier you wouldn't just want to take one profit and use that as your sole way of understanding old salvation what if we just had the book of Giants great book but that I would want that all Bible current next this now I can put as a good question can we take whatever life is about jewelry and about other standards the way it is today because times of change therefore has the Council checked but that's an excellent question so what you have to do is we often talk about form and content I know this drive some people nuts but I believe there is a good principle that splits taken it an issue of understanding form and content Moses is walking along and he sees a burning bush what does the burning bush what is God in the burning bush talent to do takeovers shoes what is that a sign off the for example what is that what is the taking of the shoes represent respect now if we were to take off our shoes what is that sometimes assign a casualness disrespecting you get it you get into the worship service and in some couches you take of issues but another couches then calls us think are sorry that is not so the ball is the shape that the content comes in what is the content principle respect what is the form take his shoes off ten that change in a job absolutely living in your another example was twentieth Chapter 11 and and this will look back to the visual standards for spending check the eleventh what is poolside of those to the ladies in Corinth the act cavity all cameo heads and shut up our act now it now he says be quiet so many many users would so be quiet he says don't talk why is it that Paul says that there is a definite contextual background voices that so I was centered as I went to have Alexa guess what I discovered you ready for this so Paul is writing to Corinth I submit me find out what was going on in Corinth does that make sense up on the hill in Corinth there is a temple to the God Aphrodite 's and who was in the Temple they had temple prostitutes temple prostitutes would keep me here long and it would prophesy so they would be speaking these prophecies with his long flowing hair but they also often certain not table favors and will leave it at that now in the Christian church what happens where are they meeting in people 's homes in the home when you are outdoor the modest thing for a woman to do was to cover his quite unlike the temple prostitutes they would cover they had when they walked around outside window in their homes when they feel comfortable to do with a hairless son now unbelievers all walking into a little Christian gathering and there is a woman with a hitless machinery prophesying of speaking a word from scriptural something else what's going on in the unbelievers might jump at any commodity as soon as I thought the seller is awaiting for riots that woman should cover their heads and keep silent what is the content content the first seventy eleven everything should be done decently and in order so the principle is to do everything decent in order and cannot live unbelievers get the wrong conception of the church you will follow the principle how does he express the principal leases cover your heads and any SYSCON speak now later on he has a theological argument about woman and man and I'm not getting into that but in terms of this context about covering the head and about not speaking in church is they does the context help us to understand the principle absolutely now the question is on standards is Ellen White's describing something that we cannot do today is she saying look what's what's the principle on on on jewelry IIF she really like the way out and Venus believes covers the principles you know they are wanted Anthony what are the principles of drinks modestly very good what else health very good that it it benefits our health instead of these type corsets that would just about choked the life out of you it's a very good modesty health very what else cost and be the economic summit so we got it with you follow the cost of the White House appropriateness for the Fortune tracing for right very good what else simplicity very good so simplicity and I think is one more thing we added an one-day simile practicality very good I think that's connected with the health practicality so the on these principles the analyte was growing up to address reforms those principles absolutely as I look at those principles is there any justification for Adventist young people to start wearing jewelry is it a good cost decision isn't a very practical thing to do this the calls and you'll body and face is really gross on the negative holes everywhere you know that your time your knowledge your belly button I mean is that painful anyway so I is that it is it a very modest thing to do generally not it it attracts attention right what else is it healthy I mean to do anything for you that you can get infected so it's not generally healthy well so what does the young area simplicity does it go into simplicity or does it make one more thing even worry about putting on so is that a reason to wear jewelry today while you guys look at the evidence do the principles still apply I believe they do suggest applying the principles I have to say has the standard really change was that the people were not applying the principles that are the questions that this pediatrics theatrics in the gospel I yet Ellen White had a lot to say she was like the simple gospel message breach I wonder the things you should do some time to get hold of some of the some of them alike preach they are powerful in a lift of Jesus Christ they just incredible how did Ellen White feel about theatrics she felt that distracted from the gospel when people I would say this you know that if you go to make up for the lack of content you're in trouble it also doesn't mean that she likes things dry and boring not that she wrote against the cheeses make your cylinders as interesting as possible seek to gain people 's attention so they lose balance get people 's attention but don't mean towards theatrics you have you thought is how you fit her theatrics would like to say is he slipped into the issues and he represented what they were feeling so because I I if ER fixes such negative connotations I think could Jesus be dramatic at times absolutely ballistic theatrical icon of this associate from you for a wise are always we have fifteen minutes right okay are you I knows war ministry was it just me it's woman was through Emily on an oxygen you know we just doesn't pay to principal rights yet if there were fresh air is one of the points they relate to stand up quickly just and advocates of oxygen is there anyway to get in the I don't think they'll do the again outreach reach for the sauce all right racial dishonest stretch on your tip toes and brain-dead as you breathe in breathe out push again without we did the Bulldogs and in and out all right great job last few few questions not to bring up one that you're too afraid to bring up all right self abuse this is one area where I find there is from Maine this struggling with young people I'm talking about being led on the cassette because the current company but this is concept you know how could I want right things about self abuse this is enough people is going to be updating the go insane if if they practice this form of activity I think that there are two things we have to avoid here one is true as the accuser of the river sites and I have found you people who are manifestly good and buying kilts because they don't know the love and the power of Jesus Christ and all that I have awesome negative statements and when I read those negative statements failed yes so that I might feel them wrapped by an advanced that's the pictures some people have all of electrons while I read this and then I was so wracked by guilt at never one negotiating a you know what I'm talking about so we first will have to recognize the analyte wrote a lot about love about God 's love how God works with every person 's eligibility statements that were often two very very strong statements of a particular situations in one following with me second thing I want to say is that while some of his statements seem extreme within the context of the time within the medical understandings of the time what she was saying was not unusual they were other medical doctors who is saying the same things about what happens and you can understand why this would be some of the activities taking place with self abuse were a consistence fanatical use on this by certain people in an environment that was not very clean and healthy and that would sometimes leave me to the possibilities of syphilis and other sexual disease because people were in in bathrooms and other places on Fridays general language forgive me but I'm just saying that it was certain events connected with the practice of what people were doing that lead to medical conditions I could go more into it but I will I will restore you to a section in the diagnosis book on page four ninety three that deals with this animated problem I feel his people self obsession and these days lustful thinking can I just put it down me that the main problem with this activity is lustful thinking and I and that Alan Weiner will ultimately be proven to be writes in this area Linda Douglass 's message of the Lord page four ninety three deals with this topic but I do I do want to have the balance Ellen White never join sites in the coming accuser of the brethren she would sometimes they wanted was that we were to believe the natural consequences of sin she would paint the picture she would tell it like it is but she would always present the love of Jesus Christ aren't so I think we need a balance that when we speak to young people about this particular challenge and say yes when you read these things remember the love of Jesus and does God have the power to help you face these lustful temptations absolutely he does but you given a hefty complete with him for that power and believe that his love and power strong enough yes yes and it has got every young man's battle in every woman's battle and so on the additives that end and so we do have the reality of this unfortunately I've seen the tragedy of seen the tragedy over and over again I think we need to be honest we need to put it out they but at the same time I think we need to be careful because people uploaded by tremendous load of guilt so I'm trying to speak to the guilty and to say common to me Jesus says and I will give you rest and at the same time you know say that we count loads of standards what right yet so the how to do so him about and they don't know how to buy and write some very good so sometimes you just need to how to and you need to take those general principles and say how do they work for a guy I knew I had to come in at one and known would be brave enough to bring it up slightest thought I'd jump in narrow release maintenance there is some science scientific evidence of that does back up Ellen likes you particularly in extreme cases in extreme cases that it does lead to medical conditions yes I know to take one last final ministry here in the sub very good well I know that hung in a move on from that topic but it is true that God has provided a way out they meant but we do all principles of the rock covenants there always we can we can deal with this questions before we close yet I just write yeah I I that's why I think what we have to do is go back to the false I look at the principles we have to ask the same questions about modesty and practicality she was very practical in my mind I would send within a time for instance when woman had these long braces she said I can make addresses Melissa wanted people to put them on the ground but back then what you have to give nice vehicles traveling around no UN horses and and buggies and what was his leaf on the thanks all right so as you won't get a lot of your traces would pick up the svelte such as in raise the addresses so they wanted people to get off the version in those days of the miniskirt cannot and so is she which she was just trying to get them to be practical she said we should not be the list once to the zealots the all the fashions on the Wii shopping of this wants to embrace a new fashion all the last one to leave and all the fashion on the seventh site is very practical Don you don't have to look like you crawled out of the sixteenth century but at the same time we should look like you're crawling into the twenty second all right John Jesus rights of people would always be be playing this result with overnight young idealist something semi- crisp and I think young like with sickness I just say that you don't don't don't advertise it you're not selling this is after I went spots both sides men and woman advertise which are not static we are addicted to image these days this is why they should say sunbeam yellow and white for months you are addicted to the image and we need to get away from addiction to him it only I think myself when I get in front of the learned is that tendency to say oh you know what I look like you at all of those kinds of things and generally I walk away in an all female any grant with this letter we should we shouldn't be so focused on the image we become neurotic about image event like this if they stop focusing on yourself and start focusing on Jesus Christ and address issues and B is important when we start focusing on Jesus welcome to worry about Lila Cooper they'll was enough that that's out of the Arkansas and an F1 of the reasons why for instance I encourage I think there's anything wrong with a little bit of makeup and I encourage women not to wear a lot of makeup because my wife told me you know when she was when she used to wear makeup every time she passed the Missouri she was conscious of itself why because has my makeover on the right you know what what do I look like when we are self obsessed societies and I believe the light would say we need to get back to focus and Jesus are so good down other questions this man you really do want to get into trouble for this asking about the wedding band fascinating story on the way better we don't have time sucks they sat in as yet we we we will have a section after the station where we can it would I will say that was a very particular situation there is Ellen White's statements in the waiting Benson you pretty clear you know who the actual segments on it now it's true that there's not a lot of statements on why this was kind of assumed that add venison those days when we went away the waiting that but they were exceptions made and those exceptions of the seas became the norm on the seesaw and Dennis oversees generally do with a waiting van and add venison the United States generally used to not win the waiting that and because and because of the confusion all the bad eventually in North America Carnival compromise any compromises eventually resulted in more people waiting waiting that that was I believe never Ellen White's intention at that time but she was you know we could get into that whole discussion this yet as I say we we were doing because I was the problem with the wedding band it should often generates more heat than light and so because of the official position of the administrators where if it's a matter of when if it's according to conscience you feel you need to wear the wedding band you can't because of that official position on understanding is the official position I'm just saying my point of view is that that was never yellow lights in tension when she wrote the statements about allowing it overseas for particular circumstances or this or that USB fingerprint of a ventriloquist of Laura Smith all yeah I'm all for doing red getting rid of the ties so yet next now yeah you do know that there is always this discussion I think there is something to the Bible specifically speaks against golden middle and other things but also speaks about adornments it speaks about being adorned with simplicity and I do sometimes think that we tend to go to one extreme or the other we are the tend to be very casual and we treat God as a big buddy that we just kind of arrived at an event in the role sloppy no one told you about and on the other hand we sentenced regard to formally and we feel like we've got it I was wearing sitting close we can worship God I I I think this venture in both extremes as allied you see that anywhere in the Bible it talks about having to wear a tie but I think that what's happened is it's become part of an acceptable way to show respect is that you wear a tie you dresses and went his way of showing respect so that's that's how I believe it's come about but I'm all for getting rid of colonial oppression is thin and nine average it would be funny because it'd be like a hundred degrees out your its human neuronal 's up aspiring waiting up aspiring crazy wreaths and and yet you wearing these suits and you know the original African dress which is very respectful for then you know with probably a whole lot better but there's some forms of African grace that I try to tell my wife looking up this is the way people in Africa used address and you'll married a white African so many of them aimed at having to this later but somehow she felt like running around in tiny little skirts without anything on the top wasn't respectful so so so what I'm saying is you can take the Council arguments too far in order to give up so in our couch I is generally a sign of respect to show respect for God to bring us up alone I think it's something good let's dress up a little but for God or any other questions as are we only got a time I think we all you've done well in the heat you come yeah I hope we answered some good questions for you I just decided to take them on the fly I'm going to be available if you have any other questions I want to tell you again God has given us an incredible gift in this lady Ellen White's time after time I read the works and I say this has brought because they got I don't how I could've made it without wanting Kerry to read online show benefit you tremendously good sample for father forgive us what skeptics you must log for attending to depend on our rational views let the Word of God speak when we read things instead of putting in how can I get out of this state let us say Lord help me to do what you called me to do Lord we neglect that's this great gift forgive us that our Bibles on dusty and that Ellen White is relegated to the Sabbath school with help us instead to see the rich vastness and the deepness of the spirit of prophecy and as we do may the day star arise in our hearts and may Jesus be glorified we ask this in Jesus day and


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