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Current Issues In Sanctification

Dennis Priebe

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  • April 26, 2008
    4:30 PM
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father one more time this afternoon we ask for your presence for your Holy Spirit and for your wisdom as we tried to understand how to be safe in Jesus name I ask a man right now this afternoon the last meeting will be sanctification will do exactly what we did vacation we will look first at what it is and then certain issues that have come up regarding it in the Seventh-day Adventist church you will notice that I have put the same two categories for sanctification as I did for justification and this is not understood clearly I don't think that just as justification has a legal aspect and an experiential aspect sanctification also has a legal aspect and an experiential aspect usually this justification is legal and sanctification is experiential that's usually the dividing line of the Christian world which puts salvation on a legal basis and growing up on experiential basis I am convinced that both categories apply to justification and sanctification and will just take a look turned first Corinthians chapter six verse eleven these are some statements that are not too often understood as we discuss the subject first Corinthians six verse eleven Paul here is talking about the change that is taken place between the sinning life and the saved life and in verse eleven he says such were some of you in the category is very bad in the previous two verses but he are washed but ye are sanctified but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God please notice that the same ten him in Greek and English is used for washed and sanctified unjustified so if you are justified you are sanctified and you are wash done Dale is finished you have been justified and you have been sanctified and you have been washed here it is not talking about the growing experience it is talking about a completed experience so if justification is done then sanctification in some senses then how can sanctification be done that's done in the original meaning of the word the basic meaning of the word in the Bible sanctification if you go to the Old Testament it becomes very clear what they do when they set up the Temple but the tabernacle and they put together all of the heavier the furniture and the equipment and the laborers and the bowls and all of that they sanctify them what that means they set them apart for a holy use that's the basic meaning of sanctification to set apart for holy use and we all been set apart for all usually accepted Jesus Christ as our Savior is not the point of salvation we have been set apart have you noticed that Paul can write to the people in Corinth were not doing very well to the Saints in Corinth meeting to the sanctified once the holy ones that had been set apart so the basic meaning of the word is a legal word set apart for holy use just as the articles in the sanctuary were set apart for holy use so be Christian is set apart for holy use when he or she is justified and that's the legal meaning of sanctification that's why Paul can say ye are sanctified you are sanctified ask chapter twenty six verse eighteen to open their eyes and to turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God that they may receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me notice how it puts together forgiveness of sins and inheritance which belong under justification and are sanctified by faith they are sanctified they are set apart for a holy use they are part of the family of God they are adopted and they are set apart as holy ones ones God designates as holy that's the legal meaning of the word sanctification and that happens at the moment of justification 's sake let's be very clear on this point we separate justification and sanctification to describe how God deals with a person to change them from a center into a saved person and so we say one part is forgiveness in one part his Holiness but you know what those words are just words it is one process and it happens at one time the act of justification is never separated from the act of sanctification and they are both acts of God 's grace and we do something to receive both of them it is one process put into two categories unfortunately we have made justification the saving act and sanctification the result of the saving act which gets all kinds of monkey wrenches into the system of salvation all right right is the legal aspect of sanctification which is not often thought of by Christians now the other one is easier to understand the experiential aspect this is what is most often understood by Christians first Thessalonians chapter four verses one three furthermore then we beseech you brethren and exhort you by the Lord Jesus that he ever seemed of us how ye ought to walk and to please God so he went up found more and more verse three for this is the will of God even your sanctification sanctification is abounding more and more it is growing is experiencing the reality of what we began at our justification abounding more and more second Corinthians chapter three verse eighteen but we all with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord are changed into the same image from glory to glory even as by the spirit of the Lord notice changed from one point of glory to another point of glory higher and higher into the image of God the changing from one to another is the experiential growing part of sanctification and that is fairly clearly understood a few comments from Alan why they very clear on this point price object lesson sixty five at every stage of development our life may be perfect yet if God 's purpose for us is fulfilled there will be continual advancement growing up each that little plan is perfect of the very beginning it is still perfect when it is growing but if it stops growing it becomes imperfect and dies the growing is necessary our high calling page two fourteen sanctification is a state of holiness without them within being holy and without reserve the Lords not informed but in truth every impurity of thought every lustful passion separates the soul from God for Christ's can never put his robe of righteousness upon a sinner to hide his deformity so it is giving up these thoughts and these passions which separate us from God and surrendering them into his control testimony on sorry get testimonies volume four page two ninety nine the problem spot the area where you have to do your thinking in your study is in the experiential aspect of justification most Christians deny that say that's not part of justification you have to work on that make sure that you understand that that is a true legitimate part of justification and sanctification the odd part is the legal aspect of sanctification that you are legally set apart for a holy use while you are growing from one point of maturity to another point of majority so these are both necessary aspects of sanctification legal and experiential now what are some of the issues that seem to pop up here and there first of all the area of effort the claim is commonly made that no efforts human effort is involved in justification that's why justification is what saves us but since much human effort is involved in sanctification that cannot be what saves us because human effort is works and cannot say well let's look at that just a little bit when you come to Jesus Christ is it a simple easy matter to say I never throw out old records that I know are not right they don't interest me anymore I stopped reading the books that are dragging me down I never stopped partying that I been used to for thirty years now I never stopped drinking in the smoking I don't care about those things anymore are those easy simple things to do or are they some of the hardest things in the world essay I will leave all that behind because I know that Jesus Christ will supply something better in its place but how if I leave all that oval my life at any meeting is there any fun in life will life be a deadly from this point on because I got nothing fun to do for the rest of my life what is the hardest thing to do is it to surrender a way of life that we have been learning and practicing four five ten twenty thirty years and say I surrender it all to you because I am so sick of what it is doing to me and my friends around me and so I'm just going to give it up to you it's got a cut it's got to feel like cutting out my right cutting off my right-hander plucking out my eye is that what Jesus said Ellen White says we are going to feel like we go through life maimed or crippled if we have to give up this darling sin that we been doing all of our lives more precious than life itself how can I live if I don't have this to give that up my friends is good or to require the greatest human effort that you have ever experienced in your life because God will make that choice for you he will give you the power to carry out your choice but he will not make the choice and it requires every bit of the human energy and will and the station and I in you that you got to say I said I set aside I thrown away I burned the bridges all we want the bridges don't wait just in case just in case we want to go back one time to burn all the bridges and say Lord burn them all I never want to go back into that I don't know how I'll ever live aboard oldest trust you to do something Vermont for that but it's better in my life I say that requires more effort than anything you will ever do in the rest of your Christian experience once you've done that Christian living is really pretty easy about keeping the Sabbath when you were surrendered your life to the Lord when you've surrendered all be selfish things in your life in thing you can have them all I don't want them isn't really a huge struggle was a black guy to keep the Sabbath not like I do that's a lot of work to keep the Sabbath or will it be enjoy the pleasure once you set aside all the other garbage and you let the Lord complete backup of your life completely I suggest that the issues of Sabbath keeping and high paying and our diet change and all those other things yes they require some effort but the effort will be miniscule compared to the effort to leave aside the whole way of life that led you up to this point human effort I'm saying it takes a lot more human effort to be justified but it doesn't be sanctified when you boil it right down a lot more human fight a lot more human grids a lot more human determination to surrender your life to Jesus Christ and I completely reject the idea that human effort is necessary only in sanctification and no human effort is involved in justification at all I say the greatest human effort is involved in justification as a condition of salvation not as a cause of salvation but as a necessary condition I will give this to you Lord it is so precious to me that I don't know how I can ever do it but I will give it to you and trust you to provide something better somehow someway human effort don't disparage it just don't make it your way of achieving salvation all that human effort of setting aside all these things will not earn you salvation ill just put you in the place were God review problem saving God will do the changing God will do the transforming in your mind God will change your takes into loves in your loves and hates God will do that you won't do that you will still love that back there but you will hate it at the same time it will be a love-hate relationship until God changes the wiring in your brain and you really hated for sure so yes human effort is a necessary condition of salvation but never a cause of salvation never something that will save you earnest the that now for a long time part of the General conference in various ways said something very nice he said is becoming more popular when presenting the justifying work of grace to downplay obedience and the specificity of God 's commands of you noticed that God 's grace God 's justifying grace well let's not talk so much about what we eat was not talk so much about the books we read that's legalism we get into standards is not so good when grace is seen only as a justifying experience with God there is the test the tendency not only to ignore but to reject the necessity of grace for sanctified living another as if we restrict grace of justification within a say well maybe it's not very necessary or doesn't work so well in sanctification surely God 's grace is abundant it is a deception of Satan delimited race when God is willing to provide us both the title and fitness through grace for a place in his glorious kingdom was at all of grace not just half of race let's have it all see what God can do it's all grace it is all grace I said we pick up exactly where we left off with the evangelical version of how this all works I'm going to restate that was very clear and I'm going to read from you will scholar at four theological seminary describing the relationship between faith and obedience he says the nature of obedience is very important to Evangelical theology if obedience to the commandments is taken as a sign of justifying faith producing sanctification then it smacks of legalism in other words if obedience to the Sabbath or anything is taken as a sign of faith if you have faith this is a sign that you have faith if that's what you believe that's legalism he says he says that there are those who see obedience to rules and regulations as come and commandments as necessary to salvation well I just spent a hour saying they are necessary to salvation he says and then there are those who see obedience to Christ as a sign of discipleship and as a means of following him as a contemporary Savior and Lord obedience to Christ is a commitment to a life of discipleship is not a separate of those carefully he said some see obedience as necessary to salvation others Evangelicals see obedience as a sign of discipleship not of salvation but of discipleship was he mean by that winner not to have a very happy Christian life if you're always disobedient to God it'll be frustrated newbie doing things that you know are quite right you're still say but it is now they're not right your conscience is nagging you and you become unhappy and you'll be far happier if you'll be obedient discipleship is a good thing and then when you're witnessing to other people and your think we should be honest in all her things and they know that you're cheating on your income tax that's not a very good witness to people and sell it he only way you can really witness effectively to people is if you are living in obedient life carrying out your link your principles in your life felt that being a good disciple the twentieth thing is obedience is about discipleship having a nice experience feeling good about your experience and witnessing effectively to others but obedience has nothing to do with salvation authorities say is not about salvation it's about living a reasonably happy life that is about witnessing to others but obedience is not a sign of salvation is not assigned a justification if we say it's necessary for salvation we are legal it's that's the evangelical view they place obedience as good as fruitful but not necessary to be safe that's why they can say David was saved while disobeying God that is what a true evangelical will say in selling obedience is a sign of discipleship not necessary to salvation so again remembering Adventists Ray says biblical Gray says obedience is a sign of justification and is necessary to salvation evangelical grace says it is not either one of those things so that is again the difference between the two Dale Retzlaff ever heard of them was probably carried on the focus of Desmond Ford more actively than any other within the Adventist Church of recent years here's what he said on one occasion in his book justification by faith is often seen as only one night he's talking about us you and I especially me talking about this issue justification by faith is often seen as only one half of the process of salvation the other half is sanctification and that is exactly my position justifications half of the process sanctification is the other half the process often their concept my concept of the gospel includes both in this way human works even if these works are works of faith are included in sanctification which is also included in the basis of salvation we conclude therefore that only the Evangelical Adventist clearly understand justification by faith and what is evangelical belief justification legal declared only not new birth is not experiential not sanctification so there's making very clear distinction between those ability the justification and sanctification are both causes of salvation and the evangelicals who believe that only justification causes salvation so there again you have the distinction made by one who believes in the evangelical gospel power to come to the real heart of this presentation today is sanctification a fruits of salvation or a cause of salvation which is fruit or costs here is a somewhat writing from Palm Springs to the review righteousness by faith is the righteousness by which we stand justified and accepted of God once sanctification is included it means we are justified and accepted partly by Christ's imputed righteousness for us and partly by imparted righteousness wrought in us by the Holy Spirit a subtle form of righteousness by works which is pure Council of Trent Council of Trent is the Catholic response to the Protestant Reformation of Luther and they read he stated their position on salvation to refute Luther 's position so what he is saying here is for you include sanctification as a cause of salvation both buying then imparted righteousness that's righteousness my works and that's Catholicism I'm going to caution you at this point if you do believe that what I'm telling you this afternoon is correct if it's biblically correct you will be labeled as Catholic by Seventh-day Adventists why do I say that because I have I know by personal experience what this is my theology the theology I've been expressing to you all last night and today has been labeled as Catholic because I play sanctification as a cause of salvation not as a result of salvation these terms seems so innocuous so you know so eat your relevant but when you unpack the terms is what they mean we are distinguishing between two different ways of salvation whether you believe that sanctification is a cause or a fruit a result of being saved is it necessary for salvation or just simply an add-on the salvation is that the engine pulling the train or is it the caboose at the end of the train which is that sanctification that's the stake the evangelicals say it's the caboose I understand it to be part of the engine of justification that is pulling the train the salvation all right let's see what else we can come across this is within Adventism right now this is from a book that has had some popularity in recent years it is called the book is that the book 's name is beyond belief came across that book anywhere recently probably dead written by someone who has been giving seminars like mine for a number of years now his name is Jack Square listen carefully the objective gospel the imputed righteousness of Christ and he means by that justification is what qualifies us for heaven both now I'll end in the judgment the subjective gospel be imparted righteousness of Christ does not contribute to our qualification for heaven it gives evidence of the reality of Christ imputed righteousness in the life states is another way it this imparted righteousness of Christ does not contribute in the slightest way to our qualification for heaven not in the slightest way all of this but we been talking about has no bearing on whether or not we are qualified for eternal life and for heaven has no bearing on that at all he says again the subjective work of imparted righteousness does not contribute in the slightest way to our qualification for heaven so he says it several times to make the point as clear as he possibly can it's an hour to ask a question does the Bible and the spirit of prophecy teach that sanctification is a necessary qualification for heaven and so we want to find out what God says to turn a second Thessalonians with me second Thessalonians chapter two verse thirteen but we are bound to give thanks always to God for you brethren beloved of the Lord because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit how has God chosen must be say never not nowhere in this passage is he talking about justification nowhere is he talking about legal nowhere is he talking about imputed is simply says God has chosen you to salvation through this is the method to get to salvation sanctification of the Spirit by the way it is one more little thing here those of the evangelical understanding of salvation say that found that justification comes through Jesus Christ and sanctification comes with the Holy Spirit you are not saved by the Holy Spirit you are not saved by the new birth you are saved by believing in Christ death on the cross the good news is Christ doing and dying on the cross and you believe in that in your essay the Holy Spirit has no part in your saving work it is only a result of your saving work when he enters the picture but is that what this is again he is called chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit that's the method of receiving salvation first Peter chapter one verse two Peter is talking about the elect to save the righteous ones elect according to the foreknowledge of God the father through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ how are you elect nothing about justification here you are lacked through sanctification of the Spirit and here I want to stress as strongly as I can but from all the evidence I have found sanctification is not half me and half God it is all God just as justification is all God do I have some role the plan is absolutely I have to believe to be justified I have to surrender I have to repent I have to confess none of those are both save me God will justify meet one hundred percent his work if I put myself in the place where I can be justified sanctification whether it's Sabbath keeping her type pain or anything we do all are done by the power of the Holy Spirit they are not done by our efforts with a little contribution from God yes I have to make a decision to keep the Sabbath yes I have to decide about my diet but none of them like indeed as I think I've said before I can keep Saturday very well by my own efforts but I cannot keep one Sabbath day unless the Holy Spirit has been controlled and and dominated my experience Sabbath keeping fourth commanded obedience is a gift of God just as justification is the gift of God but anyway back your sanctification is the way of election sanctification is salvation fee statements from the spirit of prophecy steps to cry sixty three we read this last night our only ground of hope is in the righteousness of Christ imputed to us that's justification and in that which is wrought by his Spirit working in and through a house only ground of hope legal and experiential both working together now listen to this through faith in my name he will impart to you he will impart to you the sanctification and holiness which will fit you for his work in a world of stand and qualify you for an immortal inheritance of his kingdom indicates that first of all sanctification is a gift from God he imparts that you don't work it up the deficit and then by his work he qualifies you for an immortal inheritance of his kingdom when I just read sanctification does not qualify us in any way for salvation and yet writers the opposite that signs of the Times June eighteen eighteen ninety six and listen to this selected messages volume one three ninety five through the work of the Holy Spirit the sanctification of the truth the believer becomes fitted for the courts of heaven now they are the words that is used for Christ works within us and his righteousness is upon us without that's without what sanctification no soul will be entitled to heaven we would not enjoy heaven unless qualified or its holy atmosphere by the influence of the Spirit in the righteousness of Christ and I'm good essays somewhere somehow these statements that seem to be read when the statement was said sanctification quality does not qualify us in any way for heaven these are exactly the opposite sanctification qualifies us for eternal life without it were not there it is a necessary part of salvation a qualification for eternal life when you growing fruit on the tree let's say the tree produces good fruit mostly but a few of the job the apples on that tree are kind of shriveled up they just the candy that you cut down the old three because five apples are shriveled up on the tree now you don't need to say all that's kind of it an aberration on the trade maybe I'll cut off that branch and maybe that will be the solution of the problem or maybe I'll just ignore so you don't destroy a tree a fruit tree because some fruit on the tree isn't so good but what if the sap that is flowing out through the tree and the default a mold and fungus on the way out and it becomes all distorted and it isn't producing the latest in carrying the life-giving materials from the roots to the the branches of the tree so that the fruit is is just not appearing on the tree at all you got an empty tray what did Jesus say on that community indication when that victory didn't bear fruit cut it down it cumbersome and Ralph Stacy make a distinction in a fruit tree between the lifeblood flowing up through the tree which makes it bear fruit and some fruit which doesn't turn out as well as the other fruit fruit isn't the major thing is that fruit is subsidiary to the tree itself the tree may be a good tree producing ninety percent good fruit and ten percent bathroom what a sanctification is only a fruit of salvation and not a cause or necessary to salvation well if you got some little shriveled up habits in your life if perhaps you're still too much involved in the overeating or eating the wrong foods or around watching the wrong movies or reading the wrong books or wearing the wrong clothes and you know it's wrong and you simply say well those are fruits of salvation they don't affect my salvation they are necessary for salvation they are just some things which are will just cut off that rancher or will ignore it and it'll be all right because the tree is still sound I'd say everything is good justified I'm righteous fruit is a subsidiary to the tree and if the tree of salvation is justification alone then the sanctifying fruits on the tree can be taken or left as they are good or bad and you don't worry about certain habits in your life you don't worry about some things which are quite like they should be that's the difference between fruit and costs I am suggesting to you that sanctification is not just about fruit it's about the lifeblood going through the dream is about whether the sap is running freely whether it is growing into maturity are we having a difficulty with our air-conditioning that were discussing right now we wiggled thing a little more to Mike couple of comments by Ellen White on this point we are justified by faith but judged by the character of our works is that interesting were justified by faith but judged in the judgment by our waterworks are like the destiny of the worker is determined by the faithful improvement or by the lack of improvement of his talents it will be an awful thing to be found wanting when the bookable account is opened that great day so sanctification which has a lot to do with the good works is how will be judged that's the review and Herald April twenty one eighteen ninety six so there we have an interesting kind of emphasis on the works aspect here is another one by Ellen White and then we'll get into something else on this point this one from selected messages volume three pages one ninety and onward it is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God so what makes our good works are Sabbath keeping our Taipei the fragrance of the merit of Christ and it is grace that enables us to do the works for which he rewards us our works could not have been performed in the strength of our own sinful natures so good works human works can be performed to your own nature and they are like filthy rags but good works works of faith can only be performed by the Holy Spirit as we allow him to come into our lives rewire some brain circuits so that we enjoy what God enjoys and hate what God hates so there I think we have another example of what were talking about right here strange little statement I came across from the a column in the review again we are not redeemed by virtue of spiritual regeneration is not interesting sentence we are not regained by virtue of spiritual regeneration there is no such category as salvation by character well in the book of Titus which we already read today for chapter three verses five to seven it says that justification must be preceded by Reed doing and re- generation yes we are redeemed by virtue of spiritual regeneration that's a biblical concept and salvation by character what is going to be judged in the judgment character another person said salvation by faith apart from the works of the law even those good works done under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit so works of the law and works of the Holy Spirit are all lumped together in one category no my friends know Ellen White who will have a right to enter heaven they are those who are working to attain such a position that they will have a moral fitness to stand around the great white throne in their white robes of character there is a great work to be done in order to obtain a fitness of character for the kingdom of God review and Herald January four eighteen eighty seven does character has something to do about salvation strange statements are being made by those that we would expect to be far more advanced in our understand their understanding of salvation and all that pertains to in the book that we already referred to beyond belief there is an interesting phrase in the carnal believer who is born of the Spirit but is still walking after the flash the mind may desire to do God 's will but the body remains subject to the law of sin unaided by the Holy Spirit the mind cannot overcome the law of sin in our members such a life is therefore also marred by sin did you notice the first phrase in the Carmel believer whenever Jo Cruz was alive you wrote a book called square circles and I think that's what carnal believer is a square circle how do you have that you can have a square a circle at the same time can you be Carmel and the believer born of the spirit and walking after the flesh at the same time the Jesus that you cannot serve two masters not a mammon and yet here we have a carnal believer born of the spirit but walking after the flesh where the mind wants to do God 's will but the body remains subject to the law of sin unaided by the Holy Spirit can you be born of the Holy Spirit while unaided by the Holy Spirit there are just some major word contradictions here that just seem like impossible to put together and by the way where this all comes down and out of his the book is the chapter in Romans seven the good that I would I do not amount which are not would not that I do the whole wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death meaning that my old flesh is still working within me it leads me to be carnal I can't help it with my mind I want to do the right thing but my flesh is still going down this road of carnality and that is seen as the way of Christianity that for this is all coming out a false view of Revelation 's Roman seven again phrasing from this book carnal Christians who have experienced the new birth but you are still dominated by the life of the flesh this is not possible my friends is no more possible that a square circle is possible carnal Christians who have experienced the new birth but are still dominated by the life of the flesh this is from the book beyond belief by Jackson where on pages one forty eight and one fifty now my friends we are reading in a move in the deep waters on this point first of all and I'll give you visit the references in the places I'm getting this from this is from and I read earlier from Elder Falkenberg when he was president of the General conference this is in his book called in Christ we obtain salvation through agreeing to enter a relationship of trust in Christ and occasional good deeds and misdeeds neither make nor break that relationship in his book we still believe our sell our assurance of salvation is based on God 's grace by faith not on our behavior or character development at each stand we may commit does not turn off salvation in our lives so when we sin we do not lose our salvation we remained right with him well I go back to Desmond for nineteen seventy six that which he did for us which brings complete acceptance with God for every believer and the work he does in us which has nothing to do with our acceptance by God and is seeing some similarities here between all the things I've read and what Desmond Ford was featured in nineteen seventy six through nineteen eighty one same word same phrasing exactly the same well now let's get more serious this author is the most well-known author in the Seventh-day Adventist Church on the subject of righteousness by faith he has written more books on the subject has received more praise on how to explain salvation than any other Seventh-day Adventist his name is Maurice Vanden is it possible to sin and to know you are sending and keep on doing what you're doing wrong and still be a Christian that's the question can you keep on sending and still be a Christian in a right relationship with Christ and salvation then he talks about the Disciples of Christ and here is what he says about them the disciples continued their discussion along the road to Jerusalem taking care of their unfinished business but they knew what they were doing was wrong because they lag behind Jesus in fact by the time Jesus reach the city limits his disciples were so far behind it he couldn't even hear what they were saying now that's a little bit of sanctified imagination I think he was right I don't think those disciples wanted Jesus in on that conversation what you think Elizabeth I'm better than you are you don't deserve this place I have more qualifications than you do they knew what Jesus said he was greatest among you take the lowest place they knew good and well they didn't want Jesus in on that also the sin of which the disciples were guilty was not only sanded was a bad sin and they knew it was wrong and they knew what they were doing but they kept right on doing it that qualifies in my definition as known sin continuing sin habitual sin cherished sin persistent sin on the basis of this Bible story we can conclude that it is possible to have a relationship with God going on and have a known sand going on in your life at this hi disciples that a relationship with God going on at a known sin going on at the same time there is the proof since the disciples were walking with Jesus Christ they had rejected Jesus Christ they were in the saving relationship to him all the while they were arguing about who was the greatest was the evangelical gospel saves the way of salvation believe in Jesus Christ be legally justified accept them as your Savior and then let the work of sanctification gradually grow if it's got warming apples well it's just a result anywhere is just a fruit don't worry about it it's okay as long as you believe in Jesus Christ now when you reject Jesus Christ and walk the other way then you can be lost the disciples obviously weren't walking the other way they were following Jesus Christ and so they had a wormy Apple right now they were arguing about who was to be who would be the greatest that's okay they did not lose their salvation well what was the sin that the disciples were guilty of in one word try I'm better than you are what was the sin of which Lucifer was guilty of in one word try Lucifer was cast out of heaven for continuing in Fry continuing and pride the disciples did you read any of a evidence in the story of them walking along the road as they continued in this didn't happen just once folks this happened a fair amount I'm sure that they were repentant immediately that they said Lord were so sorry we talked about this subject we won't bring it up again when we come across anything like that of the Gospels did not take one of the most awesome acts that Jesus ever did in his life to take off his garments and get down and wash their dirty feet before they finally got the message and even I wasn't totally clear but they began to get them a copy of the message they weren't repenting as they were arguing etc. while later before they ever repented of that sin and even on one occasion they got one of their mothers to come in and do some interceding and pleading that my sons are the ones that are qualified this was a clotting business they weren't repenting they were plotting they were guilty of continuing prize what you think what kind of case with Lucifer Satan now have against the character in the government of God that he could say in the face of a watching universe the jury now I was cast out of heaven never more to find my place in heaven for the sin of pride and you're taking these disciples into heaven while participating in the very same sin for which I was cast out and they haven't repented yet what of the earth would swallow them up right at that moment and earthquake destruction a tower falling on them like in the power of the Jesus talked about and be gone and you take them to heaven because they you had forgiven them you cast me out of heaven and you take them to heaven and neither one of us have repented of our pride what do you think the case would be in the watching universe I believe that Satan would win his case don't you if God would feel that way with those who are sending taking a favorite group into heaven while participating in the very same sin for which a third of the angels were cast out I think that would devastate God and his government and his way of life so I don't believe that these disciples were really following Jesus altogether were walking but I don't believe they were following Jesus while they were arguing about who was the greatest and I think that's why Jesus had to say to Peter on one occasion when your bird then you can help your brothers Peter and then arguing to and Peter needed conversion experiential justification experiential sanctification so that is one way of phrasing it now going back to the other author in the beyond belief here is the way he says it there's a world of difference between sending under the law and sinning under grades in all I would see that I think there is a world of difference between sending under the law before you come to Christ and sending under grace after you've been saved by Jesus Christ I say the sense that a sitting after Christ is much worse than with anything before you knew Christ seems to me it's much greater when you receive the gift of salvation a glum throwaway than if you didn't know it was there before well that is quite the way he says it the world of differences this stumbling under grace falling into sin does not deprive us of justification neither does it bring condemnation before he came to Christ you are lost because of your sins but after grace when you fall into sin you don't lose your justification it still covers you and it does not bring condemnation to you you are not condemn once you come to Christ you are not deprived of justification so the disciples yes they were still saved while arguing about who would be the greatest here's another one again from the same author that will make you already read this one this is one I've read on David Saul stood about one David would have been lost only by losing his faith trust relationship not by committing adultery here's an interesting one there are three words for sin iniquity transgression and missing the mark three types of sin the missing the mark sin this type of Stan won't cause us to be lost because our conscious choices still the following or we just fall short words IPL so here committing iniquity are lost if your domain transgression your loss if you're just missing the mark you want to serve the Lord Romans seven you just offshore little bit and won't cause you to be lost but this is an interesting e-mail this is not an authority at all this is just something I came across an e-mail that someone was trying to argue his point that there are certain kinds of sin that would not cause you to be lost so there this is just an interesting little thing I came across all that if that's the case I want to know about the missing the mark since I can still indulge them I want to find out which category of sins my sins fall into the inequities are the transgressions are just missing the mark my friends I think missing the mark is just as serious as any other kind of sin because God has given us the market and the ability to live up to that mark by his Holy Spirit if we miss it it's seriously not here is one that again is just an e-mail kind of discussion on this point here's an interesting one some sins in Hebrew are called Chuck to all they cannot be overcome they are not counted against us and they have nothing to do with our fitness are unfitness for heaven 's analogous zebra in the other it was in the great the Takahashi sensei in Hebrew are not counted against us so that auditing to do about whether we're right or wrong and someone went to the pain of looking up that word in the Old Testament and finding out what kinds of sins are covered by that word in Hebrew conifers wife lowering Joseph the selling of Joseph and the slavery by his brothers idolatry the rebellion of core against Moses Eli 's sons rebellion against the Lord the planned murder of David by Saul the multiple standard which Jeroboam led Israel the sins of Manasseh are all oh five and but they're not counted against this is the goal were doing interesting little things these days with the Hebrew and Greek words trying to see which Hebrew and Greek words will cause us to be lost and which will allow us to be saved in our sin I'm going to suggest to you that the search for an escape route through the Hebrew or Greek words for sins is a dead end street you will not achieve any better understanding of what Stan is my categorizing sands through these different names in the Greek and Hebrew languages that I think is a dead-end street another one this time from the editor of the signs of the times Marvin Moore we don't lose our relationship with him by committing sin but by changing God 's audio loser relationship with them taking Satan as your Lord rejecting Jesus Christ we don't lose our relationship with them by committing sin but by changing God 's in another place he put it this way the idea that Christians break their relationship with Jesus every time they send is actually a subtle form of righteousness by works it makes obedience rather than faith the condition of our acceptance by God but that's a very important point right here do we lose our relationship with Jesus Christ when we sin as a major issue in all of this that were talking about before I address that directly though I want to share with you some things that I have found in the spirit of prophecy on this point and that are worth our careful attention this one from testimonies volume four page six twenty three every transgression brings the soul into condemnation and provokes the divine displeasure every transgression brings the soul into condemnation we just renaissance after grace don't bring us into condemnation my wife today page two fifty no one who truly loves and fears God will continue to transgress the law in any particular whatever his profession may be the is not justified which means part again I just read that stumbling under grace falling into sin we do not lose our justification when we transgressed God 's law whatever our profession maybe we are not justified the clearest of them all the willful commission of a known sin that's the key word known sin doesn't matter what the sin is known unto us the willful commission of a known sin silences the witnessing voice of the Spirit and separates the soul from God whatever may be the ecstasies of religious feeling we may come to church and praise the Lord for justification and for the mercy of God and the unconditional love of God Jesus cannot abide in the heart that disregards the divine law we cannot for one moment separate ourselves from Christ with safety messages to young people one fourteen and one fifteen and I suggest that those disciples were separating themselves from Jesus Christ as they walked down the road arguing about who was good was the greatest Jesus cannot abide in the heart that disregards the divine law couple of others worth our attention long feelings have been cherished keyword cherished arrogant pride self-sufficiency impatience and murmurings all these separate us from God keyword there my friend separate God 's amazing grace one thirty nine any sand in them separates them from God testimonies five six sixty one five two pages read them all every impurity of thought every lustful passion separates the soul from God through Christ can never put his robe of righteousness upon the hide his deformity our high calling page two fourteen where may the question be asked with a earnest anxious heart is in the generation is jealousy permitted to find a place in my heart if so Christ is not there very plain very clear impossible to misunderstand in order for man to retain justification there must be continual obedience selected messages volume one three sixty six and then the biggest one Christ life declares that humanity combined with divinity doth not commit sin humanity combined with divinity does not commit sin ministry of healing one eighty one and what commits sin humanity separated from divinity humanity separated from the Holy Spirit humanity separated from Jesus Christ that is the only way seemed to be committed the only way those disciples to go arguing down the road about who was the greatest was if they had in their hearts back off from Christ as the author said they backed off from Christ so they can have their own sinful conversation they were not in harmony with them they were separated from him by their hearts just as Lucifer separated from the cell from God separation my friends is a serious business and it will cause the loss of our salvation is the as a very as student professor of mine once told me it is very simple Christ in sin out CNN Christ that how could it be otherwise how can Christ and Sandy dwelling in my life at the same time I know this is wrong but I'm going to go ahead and do it let's take David right now I know all I shouldn't do it but she's so beautiful I'm the king I deserve her and off you go how can that be Christ living in his heart the same time how can that have there be a relationship of trust faith and obedience while those thoughts are controlling heaters only one way we can send there's only one way possible to send Holy Spirit would you just step aside over there for a moment on it over here and do something here which I know you are going to participate with me and I just hope you're there when I get back was the only way we can sit is walking away from the Holy Spirit control because the Holy Spirit will not sin in our lives now which brings us back to that question do we lose our relationship with Christ every time we sin you know what I think it depends more on what happens when we slip and fall I said in a letter on thing to say let's was work on that this little bit when we slip and fall when words come out of our mouth are not God 's words when they are impetuous words are hurtful words when their angry words that is the spirit of Satan that's not the spirit of Jesus Christ okay someone has offended us someone has missed maligned us someone has said something that was totally improper for them to say and we rise up in righteous indignation oh yes and we defend our egos and we say you can't talk to me that way you have no right to say that about me here's what I think about you right I recall it righteous indignation oh yes and when those words come out of our mouth we have two options immediately right there because we know our consciences just said was that wasn't the way Christians and soft talk our consciousness their nagging us just a little bit praise God for a nagging conscience conscience can two points now human pride human pride in human ego that's the biggest problem we got selfishness and here's the human way of settling that problem you see we got a hand linked in the hand of Jesus Christ that comes in justification and sanctification and we take that hand and we clenched behind our backs and we say something like when she says she's sorry while then I'll say I'm sorry but I will wait for her to admit that she was in the wrong and I'm the just say more hurtful words until she gets the point they is not the way defend your rights don't let anybody say nasty things about you don't turn the other cheek now that's the hardest remember Jesus never made the others are pretty easy sell all your goods and give the poor as an easy when compared to turn the other cheek turn the other cheek when someone maligns disparages you criticizes you does something wrong to you well I'm just in a way till they get the point and I'm not a talk to them anymore in our hands are solidly clenched behind our back we are separated from God my friends there is no way were walking with Jesus Christ there is no way the Holy Spirit is dwelling living in our lives while we hold that grudge while we hold that anger that bitterness of spirit that that that wrong attitude what's the divine way when the words come out of our mouth we pray like Eli should did for his servant around Dalton opened the serving size we can see what's up there around the city all he can see now are the armies surround that that that were in jeopardy with show him what's really there and all of a sudden he saw the angels of God as a mighty army and he was satisfied everything was to be all right what do we need we need some eyes all what is happening up there not down here not there but there those words coming out of my mouth are transcribed by what ever means the Angels of God have we had computers we think there pretty fast I think they got better methods they are transcribed verbatim late with probably the number verbatim with probably the emphasis and the and the expressions and emotions all put together directly to the Captain Satan himself Eddie froze those words in the face of Jesus Christ they says there is your Christian there is your gospel bears your salvation letter that Christian right now your way doesn't work he's my servant not your service watch and just watch it let's just watch the evidence is that Christ or is that Satan working in him right now and when we realize that's what's happening every time we sin my friends doesn't matter what sin we commit when we know what is wrong and we willfully do the wrong thing Satan throws that in the face of Jesus Christ as evidence that God 's way doesn't work and it's a fraud and God is helpless his grace is powerless and we say what have I done I just extended the great controversy I just allowed Satan a little more breathing room on this planet I've been set given Satan were arguing time with God because right now I'm unsalable sagrada way to say I love my children hold the wins of strife until they are ready to be sealed and my children aren't there look at it right now it wouldn't be helpful to him or to us the ceiling now and so that means Satan is more time running on this plan and that's what I see when those words come out of my mouth I have given Satan more time to run this planet and kill babies in Africa and abused children and their own parents homes and be destructive everywhere you choose I have given Satan the right to do that by my choice to say God I don't like your way I'm not good to turn the other cheek that's too hard it's unfair Satan you're right and God was wrong that's what happens when words come out of our mouth that are not divine sanctified holy words and I realized my conscience is alive I see what is happening up there the courts of heaven message Lord my hands slipped it was pulling out of your hand will you take it back and yell at God says he doesn't want to look at you for a while I don't know if you really mean that they are due the day and see if you mean outcome doesn't operate that way the prodigal son in the father tells that story where did the fund the prodigal son get met by the father a long way down the road soon as he saw them coming back he ran out of reason taken home and so at the moment I say Lord I'm placing my hand back in your hand she takes it back he takes it back is the most forgiving loving unconditional person but there is in the universe he takes us back he doesn't say awkward John probation for a little while he takes us back in our hand is right back in his head no we do not lose our salvation if we do that if the hand slips and we make a mistake and we say Lord take it back we do not lose our standing of salvation we do not come under condemnation because we are immediately repentant for our staff that's the key immediately repentant not a day later not a month later but right now I have dishonored you Lord I'm so Re: you think of the person that has wronged you and should say they are sorry first would you say to that person even though I don't believe what you said was right when I said was very wrong and I'm sorry for saying you can be honest you can tell them that you don't believe what they said was proper but say like Christ would say not like Satan would say I was wrong in what I said to you repentance immediate repentance keeps the hand in the hand of Jesus Christ and you don't lose your salvation this is not as some people characterize it you'll your religion in Christ now in and out in the now know it is not that but when you take that hand and you clench it behind your back and you say I won't until I'm going to insist or whatever you say you know you lose your relationship with Christ and you walk out the saving relationship and you have to ask the Holy Spirit to forgive you and accept you all over again to find that relationship separation is real and the first gospel the evangelical gospel denies that you separate yourself from Christ while sitting to put it very simply now are getting down a really bottom-line stuff one gospel teaches that you can be safe while sending as long as you believe in Jesus one gospel teaches that when you believe in Jesus he frees you from sin there is the difference between the two Gospels saved while sending or save from sending two different Gospels two different ways of salvation couched in very interesting words just fruit or cause just aware of fruit may call that difference if you believe that sanctification is a fruit you believe you can be saved while sending out sure you've heard that quite a bit sanctification is a fruit of justification now I will and that obedience is the fruit of justification sanctification but sanctification is not a fruit of justification is the cause of salvation not a fruit of salvation because sanctification is God 's work it is God 's work one hundred percent not to deal with something else right here I came across this from the elder Spangler who was a editor of ministry magazine for many many years and he talked about justification being a covering umbrella over a person 's entire life and that is becoming a very very popular thing to say once we been justified once we been legally accepted by Christ it is no umbrella for past sins present sins and future since I've even heard it expressed this way how will the people of God the able to survive after the close of probation when obviously they are going to slip a little bit in our fallen nature is just that way they'll make a mistake they'll send somehow after the close of probation well it's because they have the covering of umbrella covering umbrella of justification it covers their future sin and therefore even after Jesus steps out of the most holy place after he steps out of the sanctuary it is no longer giving immediate forgiveness for immediate sand we still have the covering of the umbrella of justification that began with our new birth that covers us all the way to the second coming of Christ so even if we lose our temper after the closing probation we are still covered by justification day that's the phrasing of this now Elder Spangler dealt with it in this way and I thought it was very interesting he said never preach justification in such a way as the downgrade sanctification justification and sanctification are inseparable in the Christian experience sometime ago I heard of a minister who play extreme emphasis on justification as the absolute and only factor in one's acceptance with God the practical result of his preaching was the idea that works had nothing to do with one salvation he shocked his congregation with the assertion that since he was a Christian saint solely by the doing and buying of Jesus Christ he would still inherit the kingdom even if in a moment of weakness he slipped into the sin of adultery and happened to die during the adulterous act a strange illustration indeed coming from the lips of a minister did David with his double sin of murder and adultery and her intimate that during his flagrant departure from obedience he had the assurance of God 's acceptance where King David to enter one of our pulpits today and face the question David did you feel that you are still accepted of God during the time you weakened and committed adultery with Bathsheba then tried to cover up by ordering the murder of Uriah her husband and had you die during this incident you believe you would've been saying can we imagine him answering yes Ellen White relates that when the profits finger of accusation was pointed out him that's Nathan David trembled lest guilty and unforgiven he should be cut down by the Swift judgment of God guilty and unforgiven patriarchs and Prophets page seven twenty two David's transgression she says changed his relation to God David's transgression changed his relation to God he had been a man after God 's own heart now he was not him he was guilty and he was unforgiven and by the way do you remember how long this condition lasted between the time of his adultery and nations coming to him and challenging him with that terrible we believe it was at least a full year that David continued in his state of say I am the king things do this all the time I am only a human being I slipped and then I took care of it so nobody will know and I'm still the king of Israel the chosen one of God that's what he said for the whole year he went to the Temple I'm sure he did I'm sure he offer sacrifices I'm sure he said I'm still God 's chosen servant I'm sure he said all those things to fool himself into a false assurance of salvation as countless Christians are doing today and only when by the power of the Holy Spirit and Nathan speaking directly to his conscience that he realized and admit that he was guilty and unforgiven during that whole period of his life and you know I think I think Satan would have loved to take Satan does David's life during that period Deutsche Bank I think that Satan would have lured David out into a battle situation if he could happen where David would've been at the forefront of the Army likely but Uriah and David Goodman cut down because David the man after God 's own heart would've been then been lost forever I believe that Satan tried harder I don't have the evidence for this I'm just guessing at Satan 's mind I delay Satan tried harder to kill Saint David at that point that it in the other time in his life and you know what God did let that happen I believe God took more pains to keep David a lie during his area rebellion many even when he was fleeing from Saul because God knew that David was in jeopardy of losing eternal life and he knew there was still hope for this man because he really was a man after God 's own heart and he wanted to do right and he had a bad miss the he slipped it wasn't in total rebellion against God he wasn't defined God he just slipped and he let go of the hand of God for a while and God knows that he knows the difference between outright rebellion that cannot be changed at a slip by an honest person Judas did one David did the other right and God worked with Judas until the very last moment and finally God had to say there is no hope I will allow Satan to killing my even taking his own life and God did not allow that happen for David and he won't allow it to happen for us as long as there is hope as long as their desire to serve God a slip does not give Satan the right to take our life so what I'm saying to you is simple is simply this the illustration that is used and what if I sin and I die in the act of my sin will I be saved or lost is one of those marvelous hypothetical situations which is not determined just which is not offered just for that situation but to determine everything else in my life well if I can die and be saved while sending that I can still be sending now and I'm still okay that's for that is going and that for all of these other plate things that I read come from the disciples were saved by following Jesus falling into sin does not cause us to be lost in all of these statements come from that idea well in God can save a person who slipped and didn't have a chance to many can save me while I'm still not repenting and while I'm cherishing sin the worst thing to do in the world the state to take a hypothetical situation that is not a real situation in a formal theology based on that that's just bad way to do Scripture study so I'm going to suggest that the answer to this question as David was lost David has separated himself from God and he would continue to be separated from God until he repented and then he would again be a man after God 's own heart it's not complicated it is simply a statement that while you're sending your on your own brother and all God can do for you is keeping alive until your butt you are in serious danger you're in serious danger while cherishing Synod keywords cherishing cherishing holding onto refusing to repent while cherishing sin there is no salvation and that cut straight across all of this and all that determined by one little word fruit or costs this is sanctification of fruit then your save incident it is a cause you cannot be saved in sin not go to finish up by going outside of Seventh-day Adventist are young German theologian by the name of Dietrich von offer was murdered by the Nazis in the late days of the second world war now the thing about Dietrich von offer Lutheran theologian is that he could have opted out of Nazi Germany easily the intellectuals were doing that they were coming to America they were going anywhere I knew what was happening to that country and though he could have had a very safe comfortable professorship at any one of our American universities are seminaries Bonn Hopper instead chose to to remain because his people had to remain in his congregation and so we stay and he lost his life fighting originally a regime which he viewed as antithetical to every principle of the cause of Jesus Christ he was arrested for his anti- Nazi activity and he was put in prison the Gestapo prison for two years and he was hung by his neck in early April nineteen forty five one week before the Allies liberated that can bond also wrote a book called the cost of discipleship and here's what someone said about that he captured the essence of Christian discipleship which is death to sell and complete surrender in faith and obedience to the will of God cheap grace he wrote his grace without discipleship in contrast costly grace is the only grace that saves true discipleship is the experience of costly grace without it there is no Christ no cross no debt and I'm going to conclude by sharing some of his words in his own language from this book the cost of discipleship remembering again Noel and white no Seventh-day Adventist ideas only this book and the Holy Spirit that's enough it's always enough cheap grace is the deadly enemy of archer we are fighting today for costly grace the only man who has the right to say that he is justified by grace alone is the matter was left all to follow Christ such a man knows that the call to discipleship is a gift of grace and that the call is inseparable from the grace do we also realize that this cheap grace has turned back upon us like a boomerang the price we are having to

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