Talking Points 2nd Quarter 2024: The Great Controversy

Kameron DeVasher

Mark Howard

Michigan Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

04 Standing for the Truth

I'm Cameron DeVasier and I'm Mark Howard and this is Talking Points.

Continuing right down the path of our Great Controversy Studies Guide, We're looking at, of course, the theme of the Great Controversy, but specifically the framework of the book, The Great Controversy.

It's looking from basically the whole Christian era and leading up to our day and into the future.

This week, we're looking at a lesson number 4 called Standing for the Truth.

And really what we're doing is looking at drawing inspiration, if you will, and lessons from the experience of Christian martyrs under the power and influence or dominion of papal Rome.

2 weeks ago we looked at the persecutions under pagan Rome, the very initial, you know, from the fall of Jerusalem, those early centuries, and now Rome itself has shifted from paganism to the papal system, and lo and behold, persecution follows that way too.

All right, well, it sounds like an interesting lesson.

Of course, I know that as I've looked through this quarterly, that we're, It's interesting to try to take the book Great Controversy, because for example, the whole, and I think we see it this week and we'll see it next week, that the whole Reformation period, like what's the lesson?

So you get a lot of that from different angles.

Basically it's like, look, understand the scripture, study the scripture, stand on the scripture.

Well, that's the legacy they're passing on to us.

But then we are getting further into, like we get a little bit in this week into the 1260 days of prophecy.

We're going to get into the 2 witnesses prophecy and some other, you know, looking at the 2300 days and the advent movement in coming weeks.

Yeah, It's really, there's a lot in here that I'm really excited about and anyway.

In fact, I'm pre-empting a little bit here, but you have 2 talking points and as we were talking, 1 of the challenges was there's lots of Reformers, but you're making the same basic point.

And so, if you're a Sabbath school teacher, you know, of course in Talking Points we we don't have the time to elaborate, but if you're teaching a class you could pick a couple of those Reformers and focus more on to give a little more detail of their experience and what have you, so that you have a lot of flexibility here.

Absolutely, you could draw out a couple instances or examples and say, let's look at this 1 as representative of a larger picture.

But anyway, we need to walk through those talking points, but before we even do that, why don't you give us a word of prayer and I'll walk us through the lessons.

Father in heaven, we are thankful for the Word of Truth.

And our lesson this week and several of the lessons we've been looking at have just been reaffirming that the power of the Word and the life of the believer to help us to stand firm, to lead others to you, and really, Lord, to hasten the coming of Jesus.

We pray you would bless our study now, send the Holy Spirit to guide us in this presentation, and our teachers as they're teaching the class, and all of the participants, that the Spirit of God would move upon their hearts and minds to help them to stand to make the decision to stand firmly on your word for we ask and pray it in Jesus name amen amen now as you already mentioned we have 2 talking points this week a break from our traditional 3 but the reason for that is not because it couldn't come up with more, is that almost if you start going now you could almost have limitless, but I really think that this week's lesson is framed in a very helpful binary.

Basically there's the darkness of papal Rome and the light of God's Word through the life of the reformers and we're gonna see that so Talk point number 1 is that prophecy foretold the darkness of papal persecution That's gonna come primarily from Sunday and Monday but we're gonna get a time prophecy there and what had the prophets of the old talked about this time that it's happening.

Now we go to talking point number 2, the light of truth must be defended and shared and that comes from Monday through Friday, So the rest of the week is essentially looking at the lives of these martyrs and lessons we can draw from them.

I purposely, by the way, put that in present tense because it's always the truth.

It's not like, oh back then it had to be defended and shared.

Well, also you mentioned that, talking about number 1, the darkness of papal persecution, of course that includes the darkness of error and superstition and everything that was in the package, contrasted as you said with the light of truth.

Now, I put in the note here that the Bible's most repeated time prophecy.

Now there are time prophecies that are, you know, you think of the local ones that apply to, for instance, Nebuchadnezzar, right?

Well, there's only a one-off right there.

It's just for him and his insanity, whatever.

Then you see the big, the longest Bible prophecy, time prophecy is the 2, 300 days.

Okay, but much as those are true, the 1 that the Bible keeps coming back to over and over, both in the books of Daniel and Revelation, is this time, times, and half a time, or 42 months, or 1, 260 days that you see over again.

You see it as 3 and a half prophetic years, Daniel 725, Daniel 12 or 7, and then Revelation 12, verse 14.

You see it as 42 months in Revelation 11 2 and 13 5.

And finally see it as 1260 prophetic days in Revelation 11 3 and Revelation 12 or 6.

So both in Daniel and Revelation there is a recurring revisiting of this time prophecy.

So whatever we know about this time prophecy, whatever it represents, we can at least ascertain just from that alone that it's important.

Like obviously anything in God's Word is important, but it keeps coming back to it.

Well, and it's also a blessing in Revelation 12, verse 6 and verse 14, as you highlighted here, that it mentions 2 of the periods.

Because somebody could say, well, you're mixing it up.

You've got 3 and a half years, but that's not the same as the 42 months, or that's not the same as the 1, 000 years.

But the Bible presents them in such a way as to link them together so you know that either the same power is ruling for the 1, 260 and the 42 months or whatever.

And then you could say, well, why is the Lord bringing it up in different ways?

Well, that really becomes a benefit also in just clarifying what that really is speaking of.

And when you start to break down the actual time period.

It's God's design to give it from those different perspectives, so when you're done, you're like, this is this period of time mentioned 7 times in the Bible.

Now what you might need to do, because on Sunday's lesson they broke down this 3 and a half time or the 1260 years of Papal Dominion, right?

Now, there is a passing reference there, a couple of sentences about the year day principle.

If you wanted to break down, especially if you had visitors in your class or people who weren't as familiar with this, how do we arrive at this time frame?

Why don't we take time, times, and half a time and turn it into 538 to 1798 AD?

Well, it might do well, and we don't have time right now, but to revisit, how do we actually understand like the simple concept that a day in Bible prophecy equals a year in literal time?

And so you plug that formula into each of those, and lo and behold, time, times, and half time, 42 months and 1, 260 days, all just happen to equal 1, 260 literal years.

So we're looking at a large-scale time prophecy over a thousand years long that both Daniel and Revelation point to again and again, that this is going to be a central feature of the church's experience after Christ left and before he comes again.

Like the whole Christian era is gonna have this as its central antagonist.

You know, it's the thing that is gonna be testing the church during that time.

Well, and it's also very significant in marking off the period.

So for example, in Daniel 12, he says that the book of Daniel is going to be sealed up until the time of the end.

And the question is, well, when's the time of the end?

And he says it's going to be for a time and times and half a time.

So that tells us when the biblical time of the end begins and things like that.

So when you chart out these time prophecies you can see the centrality of this 1 and to your point not only the experiential aspect of it but the you know the transitional like that it's now we know we're in the time of the end because we're not in that anymore, like Christ referred to it, and anyway we'll get into this, but right now in Daniel chapter 9 verse 25, let's take a look at this passage.

It tells us what this power, which in Daniel 9 it refers to as the little horn, although we also see it in Daniel 8 also, but this little horn power would do during this 1260 years.

Why don't you read verse 25 for us, please.

Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment.

I'm sorry, I put the wrong passage in there.

I meant to say Daniel chapter 7, verse 25.

Yeah, and I was wondering for a minute, you mentioned little horn and I was kind of glancing real quick and I'm like, I don't think the little horn term is used in Daniel 9.

And so I was looking at my notes and thinking 9 and it's probably got some people confused there.

This does not happen often with Cameron DeVasier, but this is just 1 of those times, golden moment.

But can you please read Daniel 7 verse 25 he shall speak pompous words against the most high shall persecute the Saints of the most high and shall intend to change times and law then the Saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time.

All right, so clearly we see there's a he, right?

That there's this power that's going to be doing things.

And notice it first starts off with his pompous words against the Most High.

So this is that same Antichrist power that Paul would talk about and Thessalonians about how he would seek to be in the place of God and be worshipped as God right he speak against God and he's gonna persecute the Saints of the Most High he's gonna intend to change the times and law of presumably the Most High as well and the saints shall be given into his hands." So not only is he going to seek to harm them, he's going to be allowed to harm them.

So, this already portends or looks forward to, because this is written, you know, hundreds of years before Jesus even arrives, much less forward.

So this is way in the future, but clearly this is anticipated and understood to be coming, that the Christian Church would go through this time of this particular persecution by the papal power.

The Great Controversy

Adam Ramdin

Lineage Journey

04 The Waldenses

The Waldensians Chapter 1 The Waldensians Foremost in Europe, the Waldensians stand as a body of believers who resisted the compromises that came into Christianity following the superficial conversion of Constantine in the 4th century.

They were based primarily here amongst the stunning and beautiful mountains of northern Italy.

Some say the first Waldensian was Peter Waldo, a 12th century merchant man from Lyon, France, and they're named after him.

However, there are records that date back much further to at least the fourth century with Vigilantus.

1 of the early names for the Hordensians was in Sabbatii, showing that early on part of their identity was Sabbath-keeping.

Chapter 4 outlines the key role that they played in preserving a knowledge of God's Word and the principles of true Christian living in the face of great opposition.

[♪ music ♪ Often the Mordentians had to leave the lower valleys and flee into the mountains, and even worship in secret.

Caves like this dot the landscape, and they were a place of refuge and protection, a secret sanctuary, a cleft in the rock.

They gave it the comfort of living peaceful lives because they believed differently than the state religion, and they valued their beliefs more than peace, prosperity, and an easy life.

[♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪� The Principles of God's Word It would not have been easy living a much more primitive life up here, but their desire to be true to the principles of God's Word was greater than their love of ease.

This cave is a quiet place, not grand with gold and marble, and yet here on countless occasions the presence of God would have been witnessed and felt as He encouraged His people to be true and firm to Him in their faith and worship.

The Waldensians had a passion for mission service.

They were not content to live happy and holy lives, isolated as hermits in the mountains, but they intentionally trained others to go out.

Using schools like this 1, the College of the Babes, they taught the Bible, they copied the Bible by hand, and they prepared to go out as undercover agents for God.

They sent students to the leading universities in Europe, and they also traveled as merchants to the major cities in Europe.

They did not take a copy of the whole Bible, but sometimes it was just a few pages hidden between the pieces of cloth on their cloak, and when they found someone who was a seeker of truth, they would take it out and share it with them.

They had passion, ingenuity, and a desire to see the gospel spread beyond the boundaries of the valleys and mountains they lived in.

[♪ music ♪ For centuries they had stood alone and suffered persecution, but in 1532 the significant Synod of Chanfran would take place right here, where leaders of the Waldensian churches would meet leaders of the various Protestant churches to discuss beliefs and a plan moving forward.

1 significant decision that was made was for the Waldensian Bible to be translated into French, with the Waldensian churches raising the funds for this.

Other commonalities that were discussed was a rejection of the mass, confession, the celibacy of the priesthood, the celebration of feasts and purgatory.

In times of isolation and persecution, it's important to seek out community and support from other like-minded believers.

🎵 Music 🎵 The Waldensians are 1 of the most persecuted and yet faithful groups throughout European history.

On the 24th of April 1655, they suffered perhaps their worst slaughter as a massacre led by the Duke of Savoy started at 4 a.m.

Men, women, children, and babies were mercilessly tortured and killed in the most gruesome ways imaginable.

In order to escape this terrible massacre, hundreds of Waldensians fled to a large cave in the towering Mount Castelluzzo.

The murderous soldiers, however, found them and marched them to the top.

[♪ music ♪ They came to this spot right here and were hurled over the edge to their death on the rocks below.

I believe that on the resurrection morning many faithful believers will rise to glory from the bottom of this mountain and in this valley.' This is the reference in Milton's famous sonnet to the bloody Piedmontese that hurled mother and infant down the rocks.

Survivors of the massacre were few, but they rallied together and wrote to Christians throughout Europe for help.

Their letters included the heart-rending words, Our tears are no longer of water, they are of blood.

They do not merely obscure our sight, but choke our very heart.' When Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England, heard of the massacre, he called for a national day of fasting and collected money to send to meet the physical needs of the Waldensians.

[♪ music ♪ The Waldensians had a faith that reminds me of Job.

They were a people who suffered attacks and persecutions for several centuries, close to a thousand years, suffering immeasurably, and yet for many it did not weaken their faith, but rather strengthen it.

Sometimes in life we may be serving God, dedicating our lives to Him, and yet we still go through hard times, trials, and sufferings that many say we do not deserve.

May we have a faith like Job who said, "'Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.'" Whatever we go through in life, may we keep hold of God, trusting that he has our best interest at heart.

There is Hope

Randy Skeete

Pastor Randy Skeete Sermon Library

A Blank Check

Praise Him, all ye people, for His merciful kindness is great toward us, and the truth of the Lord endureth forever.

Father in heaven, as I give these closing remarks, grant us a fresh outpouring of your spirit I pray.

We'll read from verse 27 And I want you to read microscopically and anyone under the sound of my voice wherever you are I want you to listen very carefully to what I have to say It may change your life if you're at that store.

I want you to listen if you're in that house I want you to listen to what God has given me.

From verse 27 Read with if you have my version and when Jesus departed thence 2 blind men followed him crying and saying thou son of David have mercy on us.

Verse 28, and when he was come into the house the blind man came to him and Jesus said unto them, what?

The question wasn't, do you believe I will do it?

The question was, do you believe I can do it?

And they said unto him, yea, Lord, you are going through 1 problem or another.

And God may be asking you right now, as Jesus asked those blind men, do you believe I am able to solve your problem?

The very next verse then He opened their eyes No, he said unto them according to your faith be it unto you according to your faith And their eyes were opened and Jesus straightly charged them saying, see that no man know it.

But I take you back to the question in verse 28, believe ye that I am able to do it.

Do you have an addiction that you haven't been able to break for years?

Do you believe I can enable you to break it?

Do you believe that God is able to provide you a job?

Jesus says, do you believe I have the ability to heal that fractured home?

Christ is saying to you, do you believe that my spirit is able to bring back your son?

Because without faith, come on, tell me, It is impossible to please God.

And the very fact remains, there are many things God does not do simply because we do not believe.

I have no particular title for this presentation.

Mark chapter 10, we'll read from verse 46.

The very next book after Matthew, Mark 10, reading from verse 46.

And as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging.

And when he heard that it was whom, Jesus of Nazareth, he did what?

He cried with a loud voice and said what?

Ye thou son of David, have mercy on me and many charged him that he'd hold his peace but he cried the more a great deal thou son of David come on have mercy on me.

Verse 49 and Jesus stood still stop There is a way to stop Jesus in his tracks.

Meyers cried, the Bible says, Jesus stood still.

Stop Jesus in his tracks by crying out to him, God cannot turn away from a cry for help from someone in trouble.

And Jesus stood still and commanded what?

And they called the blind man, saying unto him, Be of good comfort, rise, he calleth thee.

And he casting away his garment, rose and came to Jesus.

Read verse 51 now, and Jesus answered and said unto him, read with me, what wilt thou that I should do unto?

I couldn't name this presentation a blank check.

Listen to Jesus' words, what will thou that I should do unto thee?

And Christ is saying to you, what do you want?

And the blind man said, Lord that I might receive thy sight.

And Jesus said unto him, according to thy faith, go thy way, thy faith, sorry, hath made thee whole.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, what wilt thou that I should do unto thee?

This same Jesus of whom it is said he is the same yesterday Today and forever the power that Jesus had to grant the wish to the 2 blind men in Matthew 9 27 to 30 The power Jesus had to grant the wish of blind Bartimaeus in Mark 10, 46 to 52, he has that same power to grant you your desires.

Let me take a risk and ask you to state it publicly.

Raise your hand and tell Jesus out loud, what do you want?

Raise a hand quickly, don't make it long help michael and his wife yes sister healing for your church brother yes healing for your father yes Restore your children.

For your son to come back to Christ, yes.

That your children will be back in the fold of safety, yes.

Daniel Vis

FAST Missions

Men of Issachar

Today, I want to pick up where I left off last time and ask a critical question.

If God truly wants to do something new to make a way in the wilderness, rivers in the desert to do something amazing, something entirely new, something explosive even here in our church, what is that going to take?

What are we going to have to do to see that kind of miraculous change with our own eyes?

I mean, if you think about it, most churches, the vast majority, get locked into patterns and it's just the same old same old year after year, year after year.

I mean, you have small changes, people come and go, and you know, positive things, negative things, but it's basically the same kind of pattern and churches get locked into those patterns.

To break out of that kind of pattern and see something radically new happen is gonna be the exception to the rule.

I invite you to bow your heads with me just a moment.

I want to pray for the Holy Spirit to be with us as we study our topic today.

Father in heaven, we're asking a big question this morning.

How can we have that change that you promised in your word that we looked at 2 weeks ago?

Please make it simple and clear to our minds we would understand exactly what you would have us to do.

And I thank you and I pray this in Jesus name, Amen.

So how do we experience real change as a church?

The kind of change that's going to transform not only our congregation but our whole community around us.

I'll tell you a couple things that probably will not produce that change.

1, it's not going to happen just by waiting for it.

If we want to see real change, it's going to take action.

We're going to have to do something different.

Another thing that you may think is the secret, but probably won't do it by itself, is just to pray for it.

Now, I believe prayer is critically important.

It's a necessary condition, but it's not a sufficient condition.

In other words, prayer alone is not gonna bring about change in our church, Because faith without works is what?

Dead faith has to be combined with action and when we have true faith It's going to spark effort on our parts.

And if we don't respond to that Initiative to act then the prayers are going to be probably futile There's an old saying pray as if everything depends on God and work as if everything depends on us.

I don't know if that's true or not, but I kind of like it.

So prayer alone is not going to create the change that we want, though it is absolutely essential, and I want to second that thought again.

We need to be praying every day for God to work here in New Albany.

There's another thing probably just as important or even more important that will not accomplish it, and that is plain old busyness.

It's not just doing something, it's not just activity.

Back to Menu

All Teachings

04 Standing for the Truth

29m

04 The Waldenses

7m

A Blank Check

19m

Men of Issachar

31m

An Everlasting Promise

51m

Present Truth

42m

Daniel’s Diet: Cultivating Emotional Intelligence through the Gut-Brain Connection

50m

Strength in Times of Darkness

56m

The Imperative of Love

1h

Crushing the Serpent’s Head: Victory in Christ

43m

When the Sun Goes Dark

37m

From Global Marketer to Life & Health Coach

26m

Sound Doctrine