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5. Disconnected in a Connected World-Our Kids and Social Media

Chuck Hagele

Conference

Recorded

  • June 19, 2017
    12:00 PM
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Father we just thank you for this Brenda morning we just thank you for the opportunity to be together as parents father and we thank you for what provide that in our weakness that you're strong father and so in this world of technology and all these electronic things flying we know that you're greater and more powerful and we just ask for that to be in our midst today that we might grow from being with you in a so disconnected in a connected world I'm kind of excited to get to the seminar because to be blunt with you if you ever have me come to your church this is the last thing I do and I typically run out of time and so the slide so you're going to see today I typically am flying through them really really fast and so I'm kind of excited that we get to slow down today and talk about the disconnected world it's interesting to me before we get too far into it this verse coming out of Psalm 139 are you guys familiar with this verse we say it all the time but it says for you formed my in word parts you wove me in my mother's womb I will give thanks to you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made and wonderful are your works and my soul knows it very well how many of you would love to be reading something that your kid wrote about themselves and to actually read that. That be pretty neat want it what I find interesting is that I share those texts with with teens and a lot of teens are like that's easy for David to write because David was a king. OK let's think about David a little bit if David lived in the modern age of social media what would David think about himself Well it's interesting in the early days of of no social media what did David experienced as a young boy. He had that the Samuel came to choose a king and was David invited to the picking the choosing why was David not invited to the choosing of the King. He was Rudy. I love that the Bible says Rudy I'm not sure exactly what that means but I don't think it's a compliment you know David was this some burned the kid and what's interesting to me is we've got kids from China we've travelled in China quite a bit I grew up in Japan for some reason and in all the world except for maybe Europe and the United States we purposely get tans right we darken our skin in the sun most of the world doesn't do that most of the world protects their skin but with the understanding that the lighter skinned you have the less of a servant you appear to be right and so David's Rudy David is in the field taking care of sheep Sweyn sheep when when salt Samuel comes here's the other wild thing about it is why did they pick Saul. Tall and handsome tall and handsome and so on Next comes David and what's interesting is that in these start reading through it is that is that what God is telling to Samuel is a is that man looks on the outside God looks at the heart OK so. I don't know about you guys but when someone's like oh bless his heart or Bless your heart. That doesn't seem like a compliment anymore does that it just doesn't feel right but here's what I think is amazing about David is that David is this kid that was looked over he doesn't appear kingly he doesn't even his family doesn't see him as as a possibility of those things he doesn't mess of the physical things he doesn't have all these so his social media network isn't isn't even in that day it's not helping him around his his self image but this is what he says and why does he say this because he knows God. Because you not only knows about God but he's experienced guy through lots and lots of different things and so he's got this confidence about himself and here's the challenge that I'd like us to think about getting to is that we have a world in which kids have lots of feedback about who they are they're getting lots and lots of information coming at them but most of our kids that we're dealing with feel pretty rotten about themselves they feel disconnected they have a longing to be loved they have a longing to be appreciated they have a longing to be noticed and in this world that we live in right now most of our kids would have a really hard time getting to that verse about themselves and in their search for search for feedback their search for connection they're doing it in some of the most unhealthy ways possible and so that's kind of the context that I'd like us to get into as we get into just the basics if you've got your handouts in front of you don't panic if you don't want to fill those out all the answers are in the back if you. I don't see these slides I send you all the slide deck so you'll have it in P.D.F. so you can take a look at it so don't don't feel like you have to grab everything I hate doing research about social media because as soon as I find a really good slide it changes. How many of you had a My Space website. How many of you didn't want your kids to have a My Space website. You know what's scary is that you could probably find your My Space site out there. With your little backgrounds and all your favorites. I mean it's just that stuff doesn't die so it's probably out there but you notice that now My Space isn't even on the horizon it's not something we even consider the most popular and this is 2014 in a way to use these top ones are are just holding they're holding their ground really well so got Facebook Instagram Snap Chat Twitter and then all these ones that most people don't use what's interesting is these bottom ones especially Google cost as anyone use Google plus other than when you have to sign up for Google and they do it for you. Only Google employees do that so a bunch of people in Fresno San Jose you know those people use it the rest of us are really up there here's the other statistics that we're finding is that especially our teens are becoming less active on Facebook any idea why. Are there grandmas there and so they might have a they might have a. Some activity there but they're not spending as much time there on Facebook because there's just way too many adults and so that's really kind of the statistics around it what they're saying is that girls dominate the visually oriented social media platforms so when you look at Instagram Instagram if you're not familiar with that is actually Facebook own but it's really a photo sharing commenting application that's out there and so kids can use Instagram share pictures and silly pictures and they can double tap if they like it and little hard appears and so it's a profile for that so girls 61 percent boys 44 percent snap chat Snap Chat is really this this weird messaging picture format the has this fantasy that whatever you do disappears after a certain amount of time and so girls there are 51 percent boys or $31.00 online pin boards like Pinterest definitely the girls are there OK I will confess I have a Pinterest account. I think I'm the only guy here that does OK Kelly your wife just out he. Had a he's got a picture stick out there's some good stuff on there. I claim that I'm on there for Project paths but there's some interesting stuff there Tumblr I don't know but here's what's interesting is that majority of these platforms the girls are leading the girls go there and the boys tend to follow where the girls are kind of makes sense doesn't it I remember I was 1617 years old that my friend Elliot and I had living in Nebraska decided we want to meet good looking girls sounds familiar right and in our boy brains were like good looking girls play tennis. But there are little or your little skirts on it it's going to be awesome We're going to be good looking girls and so Ellen and I started playing tennis and we started practicing and we're playing tennis and 1 week it was pretty much Friday afternoons we'd go play tennis and it was great were playing tennis and 1 Friday afternoon we show up to our court and there is these cute girls playing tennis on it we were so annoyed. Like get off our court you know we want to play tennis because we had transitioned from playing tennis to try to meet girls to the point that we love tennis you know and there is a transition there that happen and we see that with boys is that boys will typically you know make a decision to go on social media because they want to they want to be around their friends or girls and then they'll start using her personal reasons. Which is kind of an interesting transition that they make but typically this is this is the pattern Here's what the wild is that for years and years and years people said that girls didn't use pornography why because girls are not visually oriented really. Snap chat Pinterest Facebook cookbooks I mean highly visually oriented environments OK And so it's just different nowadays and the girls are becoming increasingly visual oriented and when you look at all the dating apps which that's not something we'll get into here but those are what visually oriented swipe white right swipe left that sort of environment quick decisions based on physicality images that sort of thing and so girls dominate that environment and boys are going what are some of the pluses of social media what connections Yeah you're able to connect with people all over the place right oh I like this I can see what my older kids are doing how many of you find that it's your kids are leaving a crumb trail of their activities on social media also they do it on purpose OK. Oh that's great. They can put it on once and see it you know we that was really helpful for us when we were adopting our kids and surgeries and all that sort of thing is that we've got we've got a page specifically for our son who's got some some challenges and it's C.J. page and we can put stuff there in all the people that care can get it at 1 time that's a great great example another benefit there's got to be more yeah. Now that's kind of fun isn't it to see the transition see the memories reflect on some of the stuff that happened now that's that's a really useful thing for that at Yeah. Yeah for some slum all of them personally and kind of catch up on people how many of you have saved money on birthday cards and Christmas cards. It is blocked in and out there as a ministry like ours that is running on and trying to maximize our ministry impact social media and some of those things are fantastic because we can we can do something and get the word out in a really powerful way this is where social media gets really weird several years ago I was on Dr Phil with a kid that we took in on that on that show that called us and we had taken a girl into her and that we were already trying to get into our program so it was a really interesting interesting time when we were on Dr Phil our social media took a big hit our website took a big hit on those on the times that that aired and it was kind of wild because you could be watching as a aired around the world and you see the blips happen that was several years ago that that episode happened just about last Christmas ish. We started getting it massive hits on that page of our website and it was a Danielle was the pseudonym for the girl that we helped and we just started seeing them lots of hits on that Danielle page on our on our website where traffic had gone down to nearly nothing when we had switched our website I almost got rid of it but I thought you know I mostly keep that page there were no links on to that page from our front page it was kind of hard to find even but but it was you know I was started getting you know 5070 starting to get huge amounts of hits on that and that page I'm like what is going on didn't make any sense to me why you know and so I started looking at it you know did they really air it it's in syndication you know with that on again and there's no evidence of that and I finally discovered in early December there was a girl named Danielle that Dr Phillip helped but even that there was no connection to project patch and 1 day our admissions coordinator who's a little bit younger so she's around hipper people than I am was driving your car and there are some young adults and they said a cashier on the outside how about that and she's like that's the dumbest thing I've heard what's that about well there was a girl on Dr Phil named Danielle who said this ridiculous thing called cash on the outside how about that that ended up becoming January February is biggest mean month Internet and that mean resulted in more hits on our website than the original episode. We're getting about 27000 hits a week based off of a girl that said something ridiculous on Dr Phil and people with type in what happened to Danielle on Dr Phil and because of Search Engine Optimization ours was on the front page and what was weird about it is that we had a video of a quick little thing of when we were on the show and Danielle story and some updates and so they're on for 4 and a half minutes average stay here's the sad thing about it is the demographic there are like 14 to 24 year old son none of them are donating none of them are supporting our ministry none of them are sending kids. But that's the that's social media that's social media stuff can happen and stuff can fly in ways that you know honestly I say that there are times that miraculous stuff happens God uses it for amazing purposes you look at some of the stuff that's happening in these meetings that are being broadcast around and administering radio and what they're doing with pod cast and what they're doing with social medias is phenomenal phenomenal So there's good stuff happening and how many of you have at least 1 social media profile yet so most of us have some sort of thing and does it bring some benefit to your life yeah it really can and so I don't want to have this be a social media's run but I do want to say that that with this this positive side also comes the shadow side Satan has a way of taking stuff and I don't know what it is but something that can be purely fun to be turned around you find that with kids toys that are electronic you know there's even those little this is going to be funny people distort that and use it for some horrible purposes I just want to go through really quickly some of the ways that we see social media really impacting kids and some some really negative things. 1 of the things that we struggle with with is that when teens especially are looking at at maybe even as young as alive and now going through their cheetah years our identity formation is is their key task that they're doing. They're asking this question constantly who mine whom I am I'd like this person mind like that other person who my going to be what am I supposed to be and so that identity formation is is something they're searching for here's the challenge so if you're looking at all I'll do it here you see the X. over there this is something we spent all week on you're probably bored with it but you've got the child launching forward and laying down Ericsson's model so Ericsson's psychologist that wrote about stages that kids go through like 1 of the 1st ones is can I trust so when I cry will these adults respond to my needs you know what I'm talking about so if the baby cries and nothing happens what does the baby learn. It doesn't do any good to cry right and so they learn to distrust at this point next phase you see kids playing and 1 of the behaviors that we love to see with little kids playing is that they'll use Mom or Dad as home base and they'll connect the whole they'll make faces with you and then they'll go run and play with their friends and they'll play play play and then they'll go back to their dad and mom you're right and so that back and forth yo yo going is a healthy thing for kids to do I work with with a lot of kids having to do with attachment disorders and there's times that people are like well your baby so well attached because look how the baby is just clinging on to you. I won't let go of you the baby just loves you is just with you that's actually a a frightened child with with broken attachments doesn't make sense there is fear and so they won't let go a secure attachment means I let go I go play I come back I play I come back and so you worry about kids that never come back any worry about kids that never go the that makes sense and so each 1 of these stages has to be passed and we're a big believer at our youth ranch that affirmations are probably the most powerful ways to pick this up so if you've got a kid that early childhood is mistrust you know especially these kids that come from the glass these kids that come from abuse as they show trust you reward that as they show independence you affirm that and so there are processes of moving through at this X. phase which you're looking at probably about 6 to 11 year old they're asking the question can I make it in this world of people and things am I capable you know and so that's where the boys are exerting their strength against their day and that's where they're trying hard things and saying you know can I do that 1 foot in childhood 1 foot going into adulthood right and they're like can I make it can I make it and so as a parent if you give them responsibility in the outcomes What is that communicating to them you can figure it out I think you've got this 1 body but if you're communicating you need me you're dependent I don't think you can figure out you're actually launching them down on that the their discovery is going to be no or if we give them chance or if we give them over how we describe it there are times that we give them non age appropriate tasks for kids. You know and we expect too much from them and they fail dramatically because we haven't trained them a quip them or supported them at that point they're like I can't do it you know and their self talk gets into the point that I can't make it so here now is this huge phase from about 11 years old 12 all the way possibly even past the teen years that they're asking this question Who am I what am I supposed to be and traditionally how did a teen 100 years ago figure out who they were going to be or what they were going to do in life mom and dad. Yeah so if the data mom or farmers or farmers if there are in a way it was fairly constructive for a long time wasn't it I'm your church community had some things here's what's interesting is if you were going to become. Let's just say a plumber What would you have to go through to become a plumber. Apprenticeship even now there's apprenticeships for some of the trades right but back a 100 years ago for whatever you're doing there was an apprenticeship that was common now days for a kid to try to figure out who they're going to be how do they decide that. Social media friends they might take a test at school where they fill in some dots and they tell you you're supposed to be a what bus driver. I don't remember what mine said but it's probably I probably should have been a bus driver I was actually for a short bit but you've got these you've got these ways of trying to figure out your identity right here's the social media age is that imagine a kid is experimented with different identities different thoughts different things that I want to do social media is the same that they're putting it out there to the crowd and what's interesting is that the crowd sometimes responds with that's awesome and they're going to get a lot of affirmation for that and sometimes the crowd is going to go silent with stuff right and. Because of that our kids are forming their identity with people boating which is really a new a new thing. In the past you might have some trusted people that are boating in your life that you have had some conversation with and I think some of that still happening but more and more kids are discovering that that I can get huge amount of responses from from the world so if I wear something cute or if I say something something or if I dress a certain way or if I make a joke or if I do whatever a money get lots of attention for that if I do something lame what happens quietly and so kids identity is hugely shaped by it by what they're doing online whom I supposed to be what am I going to do and to meet the sadness about this is that deep conversations are really probably the most those most important things huge human connection is really important we talked about in the very 1st thing on Monday if your kid wants to be a dentist and there's they're graduating from high school what would be the best thing for them to do at that that summer. Go work for a dentist for the summer you know that would be a great way to learn if that's would be a good thing if you're going to be an accountant work for an accountant a tourney you know if they're going to be an electrician go go work for an electrician when I was 15 years old I work for a referral in Nebraska Yes but I decided I didn't want to be. I was the guy that had to pick up stuff off the ground and deliver tile it was it was hard but you know honestly that summer was a gift to me because I was getting ready to destroy my life I was X. starting to get into my friends were already in to do some pretty heavy things I was starting to to be religious and smoking all sorts of really horrible things were happening and my parents connected me with long boring jobs and roofing job for that summer and I spent all summer sitting in a pickup truck with people. And honestly that human human connection with some wise people from my church changed my life in ways that I'm just so grateful for but that's because they spoke identity into me and they listened to me it was long conversations tons of shoulder to shoulder time with people that that weren't that talkative and it was it was awesome and so when you look at identity think about it is that our Dana T. has to have conversation or relationship to form our kids are going to experiment with different ways of doing stuff but you don't want to leave it up to their idiot friends to double tap to choose their choose their life and what they're going to do. Dissatisfaction Have you noticed that that this is something that I need to get some stats for but there's more and more reports about the level of dissatisfaction that people feel with their personal lives after being on social media even as adults I don't know there are seasons that it seems like everyone's on spring break in Hawaii. And we're on Dave Ramsey beans and rice and rice and beans you know living like no other. People are buying new cars people are going places their kids are having accomplishments and awards I mean it just is really easy to look online and feel pretty dissatisfied about it you know my wife shared with me that 1 of her friends you know had bought this massive house and she was happy for her but she just felt sad at the same point you know and it was kind of a pervasive sadness she could logically know that we're happy and that we have what we need but it was still it was hard to see it and so that dissatisfaction comes and what we see with her with especially with the girls looking at it is that when they look online and when they start seeing other people in the pictures and stuff it causes a lot of a body shame you know my body is different I'm not as strong I'm not as good looking I'm not as funny I'm not as and so they look at their own lives and it feels pretty bad to them. You know 1 of the ideas that we really try to help kids understand is that what online is is that online is your on stage but all of us are living and our thoughts are happening backstage on stage versus back stage and so an example that I do when I do the teaching is going back to the doctor fill up a soda was that I had gotten a call on Thursday I was on a plane on Monday I was sitting in a studio on Tuesday and I love food that's my confession I love food and so I'm sitting in a place with all the food around me that you can imagine chocolate covered strawberries there's all sorts of cookies there's there's I mean anything I could imagine that I'd be hungry for is there and I've got my hands on a coffee cup and I'm shaking and I'm usually not scared I mean I've been on 3 B.N. a bunch of times and that just narrow scared me at all but the idea of being on national T.V. had to be frightened. And I'm sitting there and you have to use a restroom you have to get someone to guide you to take you there you don't get to choose you can't walk around the studio and you're on your own they come and look at your clothes and they saw the suit that I was going to be wearing the said that'll be fine. I don't know about you guys but I wanted them to say all that's going to look awesome on the screen what they're like that'll be fine. And so but there's other people that will actually change up their wardrobe you know right there to go on the show they've got a whole bunch of clothes set aside with ties and jackets and everything so that so that people look the way they want to look a me go to make up and I just thought they do a little bit of makeup because I'm not a star on the show I'm just sitting there as a resource but they're doing makeup and lots of makeup and the guys slicing it up and it's like a 20 minute makeup thing and I'm like it was I didn't think I needed to. And so imagine my insecurities by the time the server lights go on I've had a horrible or 5 hours leading up to the lights going on but when the lights go on I want to represent project patch as best I can and some doing my very best to have my voice under control and for me to look confident and for me to look excited about helping the girl and it was just a whirlwind of activity on the show and then you have no idea what they're going to shortcut and what they do is they take the best minutes from the show after 3 hours of recording you get $45.00 minutes of the show and you have no idea what they're going to show and so the reason I share that is if you just watch that snippet of me on Dr Phil I look fairly confident he calls me Chuck hell. Which is not my. That's fine if you want to call me that but it's this awkward thing of me trying to portray that used to this I'm OK with this I'm comfortable here but in the back of my mind what am I I'm terrified. So here's the reality is that what we do on on social media is that we try to show pictures that are that are flattering we show the best of our lives even people that are saying you know I'm doing no makeup Monday even that's this. I don't know it's I think it's better than some of the other options but it's we we in a sense are are showing the best to the other world we're showing the confidence we're still in the funny and in the meantime we're living in a world in which we have our insecurities backstage Yeah please. You have you know so don't compare your insides to somebody is our size exactly but the challenge of it is that it's just so strange There's something about social media that makes it seem like we're all being authentic with each other it carries the perception about authenticity and so you've got kids that are looking at it like that person so smart they're only they're the my same age but they've got their life together and I. I can't even pick what tooth brush to use you know toothpaste is please and really nice. Break. So she invited people off the main page. Earlier. Come to this page you know and honestly here's the other thing just and I'm trying not to be just mental but when you work with with kids that struggle there's a class of people called borderline anyone know a borderline means borderline means that they're just everything is dramatic. There are drama everywhere these kids are really likable they share their life story if you came to project patch you would meet or borderline kids right away and you'd probably feel like they trust you and they love you because she has shared her story with me and she's got such as sad story and any really connect in there personable and they'll share their story with you not realizing that they've just done that with 6 other people and they draw you into that emotions and there's just. A fire emotions not a whole lot of accountability for tort action with the borderline kids but it's a ton of drama it's a lot of connection they're great kids I'm not putting them down that way but the borderline kids are our unique child and you can't necessarily feed the drama doesn't make sense here's the crazy thing is online you've got a lot of borderline kids that are just getting a ton of attention online a ton of compassion they're making videos with them crying and all this stuff and people are like Oh bless your heart you know they're doing per chains and a bunch of stuff and you gotta love it but at the same time it's feeding the borderline You know and they're becoming You Tube sensations and all sorts of stuff and when I look at it there's a part of me that's like I wish that person we get in to help you know because that's not they're looking for worldly affirmation they're looking for that connection of the emotion to solve to ramp up with them is that that makes sense and so even this back stage front stage is that finding that authentic balance is a real challenge and honestly if you look at my Twitter feed especially if I use Twitter more than Facebook or a lot of my my stuff is that. It looks like I'm on airplanes all the time travelling which I do a lot of them but I don't show you the days that I'm sitting in my office frightened about all the bills that we have to pay in insecurities that come with that you know we represent ourselves really well the days that I. Has anyone been to that milkshake place in that town what is that is fantastic you know also pictures of me running but I'm not showing pictures of me to drinking milk shake it 2 days in a row wonder if I can go there today it is yummy. But that's our backstage for stage life and here's the struggle is that our kids yes some of you are planning don't go right now. Most of our kids don't have a strong awareness of this inside outside that comparison so having these discussions with them is is really useful because they just feel inadequate you know and they're already feeling that way and so you're looking at a bunch of different levels they feel a critique on themselves that that's really really struggling people pleasing especially for your kids that are really wanting to affirmation you see a ton of people pleasing that's happening online is that they're doing stuff just to make other people happy you know they'll feel like they have to go through their social media and comment on everyone's stuff almost a compulsive You know this person needs to have me say something you know so they post a picture they have to like it they have to do you know and so they're using they're using social media just to try to keep all the balls in the air that doesn't make sense and so they've got all these different types of friendships or just trying to keep people happy they have this fantasy that if I can just keep people happy they'll be happy with with me you know and to me that feeds that sadness rather than helps that you know and there is a sense of urgency that happens with with social media I will challenge you is that. Imagine a river flowing by You've got a river flowing right that's social media and you're standing on the bank. And that river flows incessantly it doesn't stop 24 hours a day that's that's going by and how do the kids make sure that they're staying on top of all that how do they think missing something someone said something I need to be a part of it and so they're thinking about that river all the time especially the kids that are addicted social media the other thing that I find interesting is around about you guys but in your high school how many of you were class you know eighty's ninety's in high school do you remember the main social groupings at that point. Popular jocks. The nerds. How many of you pop your collars with with. Peg your jeans. Never. But you know in a sense the social things they were there were really different social things to navigate so as you look around a group of kids and here's what's always been you know from I think forever it's not a new thing but parents would look in on a group of kids and they weren't perceive the same social challenges that you would you know you could look at a picture of your cost mates and you could see things you could read stuff into it that your parents would never be able to observe. You know they could see someone walk into the room and and they'd be like oh she's so great you know if you'd be like seeing something else this is that makes sense as in your own social radar is much more perceptive than your parents ever has been so in our real world that still the case is that you know you go to the teen tent you go to the junior tent they're doing a social radar that you might not be aware of a pecking order or a way of relating all that sort of stuff here's the difference now is that at the same time they're navigating the physical 1 they're navigating maybe 1 or 2 or 3 maybe more electronic ones that are all happening simultaneously with stuff that's really hard to understand is your kid could be like really frustrated you know like why are you frustrated and they're looking at their Instagram and their Instagram didn't get that double tap people though seem to be noticing something that they did. And that can be really frustrating or someone wrote something that you're like oh that's nice they're like No it's not you know really frustrated or there's certain person in their social realm that didn't respond to it or didn't didn't do something so you know in this people pleasing thing they're they're trying to please certain people that they want to win favor with and there's other people that they don't want you know and it's just super complicated and for some of the kids that we're dealing with they just feel a ton of anxiety around this anxiety disorders are skyrocketing right now especially with the girls and a lot of it has to do with I'm just trying to make everyone happy yes please yeah how can we manage let's not talk about that let's just talk about the problems. Great question and we're going to get through some of that but really the heart of it is that if you're not relationally connected with them as they're doing it I'm especially as the kids are providing feedback and some of it really comes down to sitting with them and saying you know tell me about this the answer is a lot of you that are monitoring your kid social stuff but maybe not sitting down with them and saying you know tell me what's going on in the sort of conversation why is it a picture like this seems super popular this other 1 doesn't you know so you're getting in conversation about the feed just seeking information and you know honey I don't understand your world the way I'd like to you know that sort of conversation can kick it off and she might feel somewhat defensive or he might but you're just you're seeking understanding yes all the way in the back yeah perfect perfect segue because we will get into that in just a minute because you have a cyber bullying adds another combination for because these worlds collide. The weird thing about it is that kids believe that these worlds don't intersect but they very much intersect you know the real world the online world is all it's all the real world it's all real narcissism I love that word. We were adopting our son and we were Chadli out of China we're in Hong Kong and if you invent a Hong Kong you can be on the mainland side and they do this light show light and laser show on the on the I guess city of Hong Kong that's really interesting to see and we saw this woman come through and did this little pose and click and she'd move about 5 feet down in the exact same thing in the activity was behind her and she was she was filming her in the in the activity and it was sad but honestly I would love to follow her or her pictures because if you like the exact same pose with a different backgrounds and a couple of years ago we took the cheapest. Cation imaginable to to Hawaii and so we're in Waikiki and if you're ever in that in that Waikiki there's a remove how you don't get to eat anything which most of that stuff you don't want to eat anyway so it's really kind of ideal and so it's a free luau it's on Waikiki Beach where there and we see this woman walk onto the stage and I think it was the same woman. As her it was different clothes because she did the exact same pose and took that picture but it's interesting is that kids are the center of their universe you see that in little kids if little kids have their parents divorce and the parents say it's not your fault so we didn't cause this but as a kid know the kid knows even though it's not true the kid self center stuff right they cause stuff to happen when you hear about kids and sibling dies or something the UN written thing the lot of kids tell us as they build trust us that they you know somehow in their in their world believe that they could have prevented it. Maybe not caused it but they could have prevented it is that kids have this I'm in the center viewpoint that is that is really scary honestly it really is so when bad stuff happens they internalize it in some really shaming weird ways and so when you take a look at that that's the natural tendency Starting Point right but as you start seeing it develop more and more it's this this world in which this social media rewards that encourages that sort of behavior and that's really not a healthy human is that I'm not at the center of the world you know you especially from a Christian standpoint is that is that there's no place in the Bible that says you know take pictures selfies of your life you know it's a world in which you're supposed to show love in which we're supposed to put others 1st I mean Jesus's example is is not a put myself in the center of the frame example but this world is encouraging that it's all about us it's all about us and so you know I'm not saying taking pictures of yourself is wrong but you know especially for some of our kids that feeds that that part of them it causes some negativeness pridefulness I don't know what it is is that we want our kids to have self-confidence right and we want to have self-esteem but a lot of the ways we do it is actually encouraging pridefulness you know the trophy generation the rewards you know that sort of thing and there's a tension there you know for the thing that we're saw earliest with David saying that he's fearfully and wonderfully made that's good right that's not a problem to say I'm fearfully and wonderfully made but there is a problem when we're using little trinkets and little things to show that we're we're good at it and we're getting our ability from those things that that's a problem. You know so what we say is is that trying to find ways of of exploring people social media you know a lot of times with your kids you might have a real struggle to say you know if I was to meet you just based on your social media what would I know about you what would what kind of character would be reflected that might be a little too tight a little too close but sometimes just you know randomly looking at some of the social media saying you know what what does this reveal about them you know this is reveal actually a security or does a reveal in security you know on most of the people that are plastering of trophies in the call Bushman's that's probably an insecurity that it's revealing you know and helping them see that any thoughts on the pridefulness because as a parent that is a tension that we probably feel as we want to kids to be secure but not prideful How are you working on that. Anyone else along with the with with David right anyone also David that feels like the cabin found that sweet spot yeah it's hard it's really hard and there's times that when our kids are becoming really prideful that we want to just kind of bring them down to the world right and so when we say stuff that we really regret you know looking back up please I know your every child got some. Yeah right. In your so you're always nice. It is not the challenge is that if you're good at it and here's where here's where we're pushing with with most of the training that we've been doing this week is that we were bored and acknowledge effort you know and passion and drive and we you know so the kids ability to push is is something we celebrate not necessarily the compas or because this is a rough world in which they can do everything right and they get the wrong short term rewards of this world that reward cheating stealing lying you know so if you really get rewarded when you're going to you're going to revert to those things yes in the back. So really what what what you're sharing and I'll say it so the group can hear and whoever's recording is that is that we swing at times and there's probably been a generation for some of us that were raised feeling like if we were at all positive about ourselves that's that's a really negative thing you know and look down on in a sense codependency was really pushed you know so creating this this ugly ugly thing that I can't take care of myself I can't set boundaries and so what she's talking about is a book by Henry Cotton John Townsend great people we've talked about some of their books and resources they have a book for adults called boundaries we have all the teens that go through our youth program read the boundaries for teens book by Henry cottage on Townsend fantastic resource I think it's in our book list that I haven't the thing but I'll make sure I add it let's keep flying it into cyber bullying that the question that came out from the past here is the craziest thing about cyber bullying is that I say nearly why I want to put a number majority of the time that our kids are bothered by something that's online us adults would say well that what's bothering you. Or we say the other response I'm just ignored. You know it's not just ignore it your to reading too much into it and we just don't it it is hard for a parent to understand why the kid is exactly bothered by by what they're saying sure it'll ask allayed a lot of times from there to become really badgering mean sighted and so that stuff would be pretty obvious for us but even then for most of the dolls the say just you know just don't go there or get rid of your town you know don't look at it that tends to be our response for cyberbullying and I think the difficulty for that is that sometimes kids might not even be able to really express why it bothers them so much why something so snarky why someone would write something the way they did and everyone responds to it you know taking their cues from the bulling Here's another interesting thing is as imagine your brain you've got a Mohawk section underneath there's in that area is a thing called the singular that simulate is really useful it helps with fixation on something so if you're working on a solving a problem you're singular that is that thing that keeps you processing it you know thinking about that thinking about it thinking about it thinking about it until you get a solved that's great isn't it as long as it's the right thing and so for any of you that feel anxiety or frustration you're seeing is the thing that starts worrying about it you know worrying about that I say the right thing to do the right thing or feeling something's idea about it as an adult your singulars going to release some. I'm just trying to remember what it is right now it's going to release something. That's totally technical doesn't it that's actually going to going to bring you really it's going to calm you down and it's going to give you perspective and it's going to get you back to engage in your thinking spot fourteen's that same thing that same thing again is released and with the teen it amps them up. It's the meanest thing possible isn't it so what brings us relief when we're stressed they're singular It's actually amped them up and so if it's a comment that they see that they're really troubled about and you're like oh it's no big deal for you you can make it no big deal for them they just start playing it replaying it playing it replay it for them to do shut off social media when people are saying rotten things about them they'll actually start making stuff up you know they'll be obsessively thinking about it or something is missing from social media let's say a comment was deleted what are they going to think about what could have been written there right and so they fill in the gaps and so you've got the real world stuff going on you've got the intimidation going on you've got slight little phrases a lot of the kids that tell us you know that are the most hurtful things that are happening on social media aren't necessarily the explicit barbaric type things although some of that stuff is out there I'm so curious the thing that I want to say for us as parents for cyber bowling and we swore on this really hard with our youth programs is be sensitive to it don't try to talk your kids out of their feelings OK So if they're they're feeling sad about something or they're feeling angry about something or they're feeling scared about something that's happening on social media don't try to reason with them saying No honey that's not probably what they meant or get into this thing just turn it off an advice giving you know David. Matter. So much time. Did. You. Ever believe that. And that is a really good key because here's the thing and we talked about Philippines for a right yesterday that idea of fill your brains and think about these things as well Philippians 48 says and that really is a tool because for your kids to say stop thinking about that social media feed. Written Yeah you can't do it but you can say why don't you pick 1 of your words from Philippines for 8 pick 1 of those words OK noble Now it's 1 that they picked OK good what are you thinking about for noble you know and you start working down that exercise and here's the thing is that if you haven't done that work ahead of time you can't access it in that point that you're single it's on fire doesn't make sense and so if you're really interested now and I'm like think about flowers here are going to be throwing flowers right but if you've got your thoughts already arranged and so for me it's that once again it's right on my my my phone as Evernote charts brain helpers I can go to those brain helpers and it helps me get into that box because I've prepared ahead of time I know that my brain gets attacked and sort of repaired ahead of time so with our kids that's a huge gift to give them a replacement activities physical activity can be a really useful thing but what I see is that the kids that end up harming themselves you see stories of kids committing suicide because of what happens online they told their parents a lot of times their parents are like it's no big deal and what they've parents have signaled is that I don't believe this is hurting you or it shouldn't be hurting you you know and so the kids are responsible please take it seriously don't you won't get it. You won't get it you can seek understanding of it but please take it seriously get them some help you know if they if they can talk to a counselor if they can talk to a pastor they can talk to a Dean you know there's someone trusted a Pathfinder leader someone trusted maybe it won't be you but someone that they can get talking with you know gain some perspective gain some confidence in it but please please take it seriously yeah yeah me and. Let's get to that question a little later because we're in talk about phones and ages it really has to do with your kids maturity level and need and what I say is the best way to start is is for you to actually share an account you know so it's done as a together activity and I think I talked to the parent yesterday or today that talked of the concept of a rope is that when a kid is a baby you're either carrying them or holding hands right and as you gain confidence in them they get to go a little further from you but you can always real and back in and as a teen gets older they get more trust as they show themselves trustworthy they get more rope as a show less trustworthy we're going to have to be closer and so that concept of in and out is something that we train the kids about and and as parents we're constantly watching and so in a sense when they're starting with social media let's be side by side you know let's do that together let's do that time of reading let's just time of posting together and as you show yourself more trustworthy and how you're responding to in the now you're affecting you will give you a little bit more space for independence does that make sense and so depending on the kid in their maturity and honestly it depends on their need all the kids are going to say I need it I need it OK you want it. You don't need it then you want it and then you're really looking at what point is it going to be a blessing or what point is it going to be a challenge what are the what are the kids learning in these pictures bicycling is fun true. Family time fantastic nature nice exercise. Wait you said want to wear a helmet. That's an interesting thing they say how likely are these kids to wear helmets as adults. In this family they get it right if you only have 1 helmet between Dad and Mom. Put it on her head. The reason I share this is because do as I Say Not As I Do you know honestly the artists will learn the most about social media by observing how how we interact with these electronic devices we can do all the preaching we can do all the saying that we want but they're watching our facial expressions were using it there's listening to what we mumble about people they're seeing would we interrupt face to face communication for something that's happening on our phone you know they see what we're checking 1st thing last thing they know they do they're observing us you know and so that to me that's the scariest thing and the most encouraging thing people complain that our kids take up our habits and there is a tendency that they take up our worst habits and her best. But there is there watching and so the likelihood of these kids actually using their devices well and respectfully really it impacts on the how we do it you know we want our kids looking at our social media feed we want them seeing comments that we've left online on different things and so to me there is a there is a idea that we have to model it we have to model it modeling is probably the most powerful thing for either good or or bad and this is a struggle you know just to be blunt with you guys that you have some of you that have blended families or or you have a situation in which you're a single parent and your kids are in your influence and then your kids are out of your influence and you see good modeling any you see really destructive modeling right and that's attention and I think just talking about it helps but it's really confusing for kids it's really hard on your kids they'll see lots of examples of that so a couple of the lies that kids believe that we really need to keep pushing it back against is a lie that online isn't real There's just this feeling that kids have that this is a lock tronic thing that's just out in nowhere land I can say anything I can do anything I can post anything and it's not it's not real because I can't you know grab it and and so it's just I'm it's electronic We have to break that down her kids online is as real as any other world. Trust can be broken the same way as real trust so if our kid says I'm going here and they go someplace else what does that do for trust breaks it right if online they say I'm going to do this and they do something else what does that do for trust breaks it a lie I told them mine is the same as a lie told in person right so this is 1 world that we're living in it's a complicated world the but it's 1 world and so it's a real world and it's a real world in which there is cause and effect. You know this is not a world in which we can operate without something impacting something else you can't just erase it you can't just delete it the stuff is is out there and it's real forever. And I just want to go back to that as I say until my perceived that the online world when you look at commercials when you look at devices all these things they have a desire to kind of chirk our minds to thinking it might not be real you know that this is just a game or this is a virtual reality even that word is interesting isn't it is that I can do something here that's just Burchill and so to me that power of breaking that down you talked a little earlier yes to question about real life online this is a statistic 5.1 percent of children that reported this is a McAfee study that they're afraid of going to school based on something that happened online is that some sort of interaction cause that I actually thought the number would be higher 4.5 percent have been in a physical fight that started off on a on a you know a social media platform interesting to think about is that that carries into into the real world and my guess is these numbers are going to escalate even here at Camp Meeting my guess is that there's some conflict that's racing around some of the kids with with texting and social media some trends with apps I want to just kind of go into this just because to me it's I like to look at the big picture and I think our kids need to see some of this is that a lot of the apps that we keep seeing developed are encouraging us connecting and relying on strangers for information and help. And so the concept behind it is who's near you and it can you can you connect with them and then really that idea is relying on strangers and so some of the sites that that are there is that I want to ask a question and I can put it out there anonymously and people around me can provide me the feedback on it right and so that's that idea of strange stranger sourcing is almost a way and then they provide an expectation of privacy they have of this viewpoint and so if you look at Snap Chat what the snap chat provide it's going to delete and what does that communicate to an expectation that it's gone that that it's really private right is that I can do this and then it disappears and so kind of put it into boxes is this connecting We do rely on strangers or as those in the sense of giving me an expectation that I can do whatever was stays online Well what's the Vegas line what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas you know that concept is really what I'm looking after that expectation of privacy so some of them you know there are so many and so hard to keep track of you know some of these majority of these have a have a good decent use I would say all of them but will have a decent a decent use as well as as that manipulated use so boxer's kind of a walkie talkie it's a way of recording messages but it also causes this intimidation happens so there's a lot of bullying there's a lot of more of a the level of the language that's used as is pretty intimidating you can act as this anonymous social. How it is called the social wall for anything and everything so if you can use the a gag you can just put out stuff there and MOT people can comment they can share but it's really getting to that point that you're belying on strangers Tinder is the way to connect with new and interesting people around you so it's just a way of who's near me you know who's like me around me and the goal around that is oh this person also likes the same hobby and connecting Here's the wild thing is that especially for kids do we know are other people's profiles accurate or not all right are our profiles accurate. A little scarier question isn't it. But at the end of the day that's the that's the worry that I was is that our kids are posting I like Lego's and then someone else is like I have Lego's and I've got a question I'd share with you and you find out that they're not well intentioned people and so that's a scary ask fm questions and answers be a frenzy appears on the non-A most and so you can post these questions in the group sources answers kicked messenger those texting a phone contacts a bunch of stranger contacts type stuff there's a lot of sexting that goes on that in that environment sexting is really using the more of a text for sexual content and some of these platforms will have once again the sex of privacy is you've got a bigger portion to it and then they go to a sub area for having these conversations and the expectation is that parents won't be able to see it or that Dad or Mom won't know. Snap chat I am with disappearing secrecy sexting a lot of stuff going on there that I just don't feel that it is appropriate there's some silly stuff that happens on snap chat too but really the premise of Snapchat is is you know keeping stuff hidden or keeping stuff secret or disappearing it increases impulsiveness the that makes sense if feeds impulsiveness and so there's a lot of a list on these and they keep growing what I have to say is that 1 of the bar for rules as a parent and we talked about that this is a rule that you put in place just to help you recognize to keep you safe it's not necessarily falling off the cliff but it keeps you safe and so what I say is that you should have the ability you should be there as the parent the 1 that can add apps to their phone and typically you shouldn't add an app unless you've had maybe 24 hours maybe more to do some research on it you know go online talk to some other parents because the compulsive reason for it sounds really great. But a lot of times the shadow side is is pretty dark Instagram Instagram is a really interesting platform but Instagram has a ton of porn on it. And the way that they're doing searches and stuff with the hashtags and some of those kind of things this is really disturbing and so that's a challenge as you know we're sharing pictures Oh that's fun well you know what is it opened up alongside of it you know Facebook tries to keep it clean but it's not you know there's other apps out there that seem really innocent what we call our vault apps and a vault app is something that looks like maybe a calculator and it can be a useful calculator but inside of the ball cap if they do the right combination it opens up a place to store files in the secret place and so what they do is they hide porn images that hide text you know they could hide content that they don't want other people to see and it would just look like a calculator. But in reality it's a place to hide content and so as a parent you know you won't necessarily know I've got this new calculator teacher says we should use it can I install it have that time how about $24.00 hours you know it's just a discipline and I'm saving for you there's parents that go through this process of if I want to add a nap what am I going to take get out you know recognizing that especially with the social media that we can't overcome our lives and so there's some disciplines around it you know just encourage you to be creative in that process but adding that delay helps us be a little more wary so we don't end up with something on a kid's phone and do start with a really dumb down fall and we'll talk about that in a minute on top teen Trix I just want to give you this this is a little different than social media but it's just interesting 53 percent clear their browser history 46 percent minimized when parents walk near I love being at Project passion the computer lab because all the computers are visible We have a math program that they can go to and it's really not locked down but our kids have a natural a to go to the top right corner to X. out it's just they're so used to doing that when adult walks near but that is a problem as it is kids do that 34 percent hide or delete instant messages or videos 23 percent use a P.C. not checked by parents. 20 percent make it content viewable only by friends can you imagine how tiring that would be to just choose who gets to see what and so you might be friends with your kid online but that's not enough you need to be able to go on is that the that makes sense 15 percent private email unknown to parents the main reason that email so they can sign up for stuff that you don't approve of and then 9 percent of duplicate or fake social profiles that sound exhausting. This is mine This is Mani and occasionally hear of kids that messed that up you know post on to the wrong 1 yeah please. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Wow yeah. Yeah. So from the very start set no expectation of privacy when it comes to online and so this is not a private a journal would be private you know and so with the journal you with the kid especially the privacy having the expectations that you know this journal not going to read it what happens online is not this is public domain so where you go online what you do online all that is is is there's no expectation of privacy when I hire an employee that's 1 of the 1st things we do for their online this is make sure that they understand that nothing their e-mails what they do where they go online you know their files none of that is is personal you know even if they bought the phone even if they got it as a gift from someone even if they had bought it there is no expectation of privacy online that we have that doesn't mean it's not a trust mistrust as me as an adult I have no expectation of privacy you know and that's a key for me because I don't want to be secretive I don't want secrets between me and my wife I don't want an expectation that I can be at work with no 1 watching what I am what I'm doing it's what I need not just because I'm in recovery but I need it as a human being using this system yes please. Yeah I think that's you know there's there is a stage where your kid is launched out of your home but at least having the expectation that you can and so yeah I think that would be would be OK You could set it up with your kid to say you know what I want to do that especially for an older kid let's do it together. You know so that they don't feel like you're sneaking behind them but it starts it starts if you don't set aside that expectation of privacy then it feels like you're intruding and that you're doing all these other things and so this is a cost for you to have this if you don't if you're wanting privacy to you will get you know it's just kind of a matter of fact if their cost of participating but you know I say once they go off to college I I at that point if you're paying their bills and some of those kind of things if they're still in a dependent relationship with you for some of those things you can have some of those be OK You know if I'm going to be paying your college bill then these are the things that cause kids to fail out of college and so on want to be involved with their life a little bit more if they're showing a bunch of independence then I would say you know you're it's I don't have a right to be in that area of your life now. You know for kids in your home I don't think that they have a private e-mail. I don't think that I don't have a private e-mail and I'm an adult you know and I just there's confidence but what I really just secrecy is poison guys you know and it causes problems of the expectation that I can do say or do whatever stuff and people are going to notice that that causes all sorts of problems. My number 2 it's impossible to stay ahead of what my kids are doing online parents that buy into this lie and it feel so true just give up they give up 20 percent 23 percent admit that they're overwhelmed and can only hope for the best 23 percent claim that they don't have time or energy to keep up with it and eat everything the teen does online and that is true you don't have a chance to do everything 22 percent live in denial claiming their kids can't get into trouble. So it's a it's a mix of stuff but what I have to say is that you know there are things that we can do that set a good foundation. And this is where the tools to do really help with with so it's not a whack a mole type situation make it a partnership if your kid is not displaying partnership skills if they're not partnering with you on this then they don't get the chance to use these things you know this has to be a partnership that means that we're working together for you. So it's not just you want to get to me putting on the brakes We're both we're both using this intelligently we're focusing on trust we're focusing on trust building so that means that I'm giving you more rope and taking wrote back that dynamics in play constantly you know and teens want their freedom right and so as you show more trust you get more creative as you break trust you get less less freedom and so that's a constant manipulator and we need to educate our teens you know we have to have them aware and being consumers not just consumed and so that's education about about. How kids respond to online things the depression is that my phone saying that I'm almost or did our time go today this crazy but we have to make the this process of educating our teens that's why I really love going to schools and actually taking time talking with some of those issues of who owns you how smart is your brain actually when it comes to technology and we need to keep keep educating our kids on that stuff be very careful in how you do it how many of you remember watching stuff about back masking. When you take records and play them backwards and all the doubles messages are there what did you do right after you heard that message that you played that even glee you originally had been or whatever that was some of you know what I'm talking about you did that right it caused rebelliousness and so be careful with what materials you do because some of the materials or it might be true but they cause the fruits of it are disconnection from their parents and so make it a partnership make it a relationship making sure how you do it how you present it is is a way of gauging really work on the frontal lobe you want them to think you want to process my number 3 technology solves technology problems what solves technology problems relationships right not technology technology is only going to get worse 75 percent of parents say they've had a conversation for the teens about online safety 15 percent of teens say it resonates with them. So the elephant in the room when I get my kid a smartphone. And never. You know some point it's just up to you you have to realize your kids' needs and what I'd say is don't buy into the safety argument don't buy into the everyone has 1 buy argument. Making sure that there's a purpose for it start off with the dumbest phone possible and so a dumb phone is a smart phone that has been. Basic functionality hardly any applications only necessary things they don't have admin they can't add applications applications and settings are all them by the parent there's accountability filters built into it they're using a browser that is limited with accountability so they can't use the like if they're using an i Phone They can't be using necessarily the Google Chrome or or the Safari browser they are using the company and eyes 1 of that's what you're using that sort of thing limiting the location services and so that especially some of these apps that are connecting with people around them. And building those We're social lions as you're shutting off location awareness for that there are pictures don't collect all the location information some of those things and you're making sure that you have some sort of covenant agreement with the child before they start using that phone. And that means you know what you post when you post it what sort of information to reveal online how we do family people pictures of those sorts of covenants and there are some information I'll send you on that let's end with with 1 hopefully something that encourages you a little bit as a parent in the Bible God portrayed himself as a dad. The dad of 2 boys and we know that is the story of the prodigal son right 1 of the sons it's actually prodigal means generous which is an interesting interesting concept so the dad was told by a son that my life would be better if he were dead right and that dad could have argued with this son he didn't argue with this side he didn't get into these debates that are at least recorded he sold off his son went off into a crazy layout and his son partied lost everything a son came back right and the dad ran to him I don't know if you've ever seen your dad run. But that must of been an awesome scene of a dad run into a son and just that greeting and so it's a son and dad restored pretty awesome pretty awesome story what is strange about it is that some of the party in the party scene there's another brother that comes in the brothers pouting outside you know the story right what does the dad do the dad goes out sits down and reasons with him and what you discover about the other son is that other son was in a relationship why because of obligation because of fear he might have even been jealous of his other brother that went away but he stayed there why obligation not love bitterness right scorekeeping of this is fair this is unfair and all of these things but but he wasn't free you know what's interesting to me is that is that in the Father reasoning with the Son was that 1st son reasoned with he was allowed to go and experience right the 2nd son was reasoned with but do we have any record of what happened we don't do it all we know is that God responded to his children's hearts in a way to try to win him back in different ways for 1 son he had to give freedom for another son he tried to do reasoning in and the hard thing about it is with your kids we don't know. Honestly we wish that God would print reason with me let me go you know that there's some sort of clarity around that but what I will say is that God understands you as a parent when your kid is in rebellion or when your kid is harming themselves God is not judging you for that you know when you really take this on the story seriously God would not have been allowed to be an elder in many of our happiness churches why because his family's in disarray he did all the right things but his free Well the kids responded to that love and in some really destructive ways and so for you guys I just want to give you that encouragement is that is that our goal as parents is is we pursue our kids hearts we can't own the results and Satan often is going to has to tempt us to do you think that it's all about us that it's our fault he's going to demoralize us he's going to make us feel shamed he's going to make us feel like we can't participate in church or worship or all sorts of things because of of the choices our kids are making united to say that's not coming from God That's not coming from God God convicts us Jews to seek after those that are lost not not get in that moment of fear you know so I hope you're encouraged by that you know the thing that I say is I'm going to skip this sorry we just am no time never ever give up you just don't know you know for kids that we serve a patch there's kids that years later that they come into their right mind you know and they start practicing the things that they learned in their youth and really that's my per for you guys is that is that keep going keep going when it feels like you don't have the right words just keep trying when you mess up what I was going to show you was a 6 step apology when you mess up apologize started here start again let me play for you guys and then if you have questions all just take questions but those After go can. Oh father I just thank you for the parents here on thank you for this these moments you've given us of reflecting on the use of Father father this world is filled with technology and we'd be foolish to think that we feel confident or father we desire good fruit or a kid's lives we desire all the things that only you can provide in and so father just prefer for children party that the roots will go deep into your word that their roots and their confidence will lie in nothing other than you father that will seek their identity their purpose only in you and most of all father just protect them from from the double that's out there and lead them to abundance father who cared for holy moments of connection we pray for right words we pray for silence at the right time we pray for your kids to know our hearts and that even though our words interaction sometimes might convey something else that we may know that there are the loved and that they can experience a glimpse of heaven through through the love that you. Father we just thank you for the time that we've had together and ask that our learning continue in that our relationships continue. This media was brought to you by Adil 1st a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio or if you would like to listen to more sermon leader Visit W W W dot. Org.

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