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The Lost Element of Whole Person Care

Wendell Heidinger
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Conference

Recorded

  • October 29, 2010
    4:30 PM
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I would like to tell you the story of the patient that I saw on Monday this vision I will call Bill that's not his real name that I will call him Bill bill came to me for a follow-up visit he was relatively recently diagnosed with MS multiple sclerosis struggles greatly with the pain that multiple sclerosis can bring he struggles even more so probably with the loss of function and loss of ability to work prior to this he was a contractor work hard love to work told me at one time that is experienced in his life what normal people and would experience of three lives and is a listing as he was talking he's easy I feel guilty eyes still it's not remind his wife is a PA and sees me as well because I feel guilty that I'm at home taking care of the cans I should be out there working I said the other in making the money as I listened to him I asked if I could challenge him I said Bill could I challenge you to think I challenge you by telling a story and so I did he said yes that would be fine so I told him I told him about myself I think you know I haven't always liked medicine in fact sometimes I rather strongly disliked it I told him how soon after moved to Klamath Falls I actually did a half day of work and went to a career workshop at YTD which is one of our technical colleges in the town I went to career workshop looking for something different besides medicine and it tasted me often somewhere I don't remember what it was but is nothing I was interested in I went home eight trade veterans of God please let me out of medicine this is not fulfilling this is not fine I don't enjoy this please let me out of medicine I told him how I finally understood that God had said no I want you in medicine him further started in the struggle that I have because I can realistically have my minds are accusing no way whatsoever the medicine would make me happy and I shared with him how I finally decided okay God I think you know more than I do it's kind of a ludicrous law but really we did we do we question God sometimes I think God I think you know more than I do I can't see any way the medicine all make me happy but I have understood you do this and so I will do it as a religion that experienced them I can see him soaking up a little bit he was holding back the tears him up a little bit of a challenge to my studio is gone has something for me to do when it seemed like there was nothing I wanted to do this I think God actually has something for you to do even though you have multiple sclerosis even though you can't work as a contractor and even though you're struggling with pain it sounds back to me just like that he said I am so when I solicited or unsolicited at home I says to be helping my children and sports to be the homebody and Sosa be writing a book he writing this is the juices flow of my people reading this is excellent and I hated every minute of it second could I ask you one more question one thing I forgot when I was telling him about myself I told them I am now at complete peace as I am I know I am doing what God wants me to do and you is is a willingness to live he said I want that PC says that's when looking for is a you I even mentioned my book uses I call it an effervescent PC you can find that he's looked these lefties he can't find that I want that piece so we went on and we talked and I said can I ask you one other question and he said that he said yes you can I said have you surrendered everything to God have you absolutely everything that God sent his noises I haven't because I guarantee you when you do that you will find peace you will find a piece that I have he says and I go because our time was up he says thank you I enjoyed this very much it is always thinking about this for a long time the title of my presentation is the lost element in whole person care and I'm going to suggest to you that we talk about the physical we talk about the emotional and we talk about all these things but how often do we talk about the spiritual I find my physician colleagues oftentimes much more in trip much more comfortable with taking an intimate sexual history than they do ever breathing the word God or Lord or church friends this ought not to be would be my suggestion to you did you know actually the previous lectures have done an excellent job of demonstrating the science behind spirituality Neil Natalie talked about that there's been several comments on that hundred fifty two hundred studies on spirituality in in in in medicine and the overall preponderance of it all is there's a definite positive impact if you're strong spiritually your strong physically if you're strong and if your wheat are physically chances are you may be not as strong spiritually so from a scientific point has a perspective spirituality is good medicine and I will sit there until the patients that I was a you know science shows us this is good stuff this will help you physically you will get better by understanding this and they're open to it their understanding of that so having said that it is my belief that we should all be in a rating spirituality into our practices now way I do it and the stories that I want to share with you today is my way of doing it and I've lived long enough to know that my style will not match all of yours it will not be a complete set but I hope and for areas that some of the things that I then explained to you you will be able to to grasp and to take home as a Ya that's just me I can do that and it should go home and it to begin integrating the spiritual into your practice so this is not a highly scientific let lecture sent back relax it's story time the first story is a patient whom I will call George swords and I had visited on many occasions George struggles with anxiety and depression George struggles with his ex-wife his wife divorced him he can't get over her and he still loves her he still wants her to come back and he's not coming back and edit result he struggles with anxiety with the depression and with this type of thing his anxiety is manifested in a rather unique way eight it was urinary infrequent over frequency and at first I couldn't figure this out will be in on his urinating every ten fifteen twenty minutes is something wrong I didn't send benzodiazepines and his urinary frequency just completely resolved which cause me to believe that this is all anxiety related was I talked with Georgia as I introduced him to the concept of spirituality he was willing he likes those ideas he understood them even yes yes that's what I want so I give them a name you don't consider this early in welcome to come to Bible study hear or this person would love to help you with Bible studies months ago by axiom again have you done anything with it no I'd encourage you began months ago but in the sequence went on and on hi wow here's a person who wants a spiritual who desperately needs the spiritual who says he wants you you won't access it you given him all the tools you won't have to sit now what well one of my maxims or principles or phrases that I'll be giving you several today but one of my favorite lines is I want to encourage you but I don't want to push you in fact stop me if I ever start to push you over that do that tells the patient they are in control they can say stop in and I will stop but until then I can continue to encourage so I use on which electricity I want to encourage you but I don't want to push you but this and this and this and this is how and what you want me to do do you want me to design and encourage and encourage encouraged until the point I was thinking this is pushing which I don't want to do it is known how I need this well I like to double check myself if I don't I want to get good to be pushy with spirituality that's not a good situation so I double checked it why one that I'll tell another story about but by asking permissions are you sure this is okay to EMI pushing too hard is this too much right now no no I need this why confronted him I just said I have given you the tools I have done this I have done this you know what you're doing and I've pasted out thirty first to have your choosing say ten you are not choosing God do you realize that and I asked for commitment I usually don't do that so this time I almost violated my own rule encouraged don't push I got by with it because I got permission and I repeatedly asked tonight continue to talk with you yes yes please keep I need this for Africa menaces I want you to make that phone call to this person is willing to give my pathetic is that he is comfortable that he liked the idea he says I will do that by Sunday well I found out later he didn't do it by Sunday but five days later he actually did make the phone call so you know one of the take-home messages encourage patients don't push them and give them permission to stop you if you ever trespass that line the first locations for my patient source actually went pretty far toward pushing other occasions and encouragement would hardly do anything other patients when you think you're just encouraging them here they all feel pushed to ask them use you give the union turned the ball into their court you say you stop me if I ever start pushing rogue quick I had a patient's who with a cervical strain was talking about spiritual things she had an abusive husband she cheers which is streaming down her face I figure it am I pushing it too hard it might need it should I stop she's like Lala Lala Lala Linda Jesus is nodding her head yes so what I do I stopped with later two weeks it is three weeks later I said we really need to talk about this yes we do and I want to talk about it so the timing was wrong you listen to them they will direct you and tell you how much they can handle I can't handle principle number one ask in courage that don't push the second little phrase that I use very frequently and that helps me to introduce the spiritual component with my patients is a phrase could I challenge you today at a use that all the Timex and I've even started to use it outside of the patient circle i.e. I'm using it everywhere I find myself and it works very well the story is told of Louise she came to me having a recent diagnosis of the I believe because once again she had a lot gained weight further history so that she had actually lost a hundred pounds on two different occasions now most of my patients can't withstand fifteen twenty past this blue weenies have lots of honor count on two different occasions that will status that strong work not to mention all the time that she had lost thirty forty fifty announcements as a whole bunch more than now Louise was in my office with a diagnosis of diabetes because once again she was gaining weight my MA who I believe God has sent to me also is interested in integrating spirituality with my patients if she had talked with Louise about spiritual things my MA left I walked in and I and that Louise was ready she wanted to hear what I had to say says I talked with her I congratulated her on her willpower it was obviously evident to lose a hundred pounds on two different occasions as more than most people do I congratulated her appraiser for that I said strong work ethic I suggest though that perhaps you're fighting the wrong battle she is just as much let's gone on here war how can I be fighting the wrong battle and I suggested to her I think you might be fighting the battle of appetite and you can see that you can win but it's only temporary have you ever considered fighting the battle of the will the battle of surrender I send them suggest you that if you would surrender everything to God if you would give your appetite to God leave it there and fight the fight of surrender or fight the battle of the will to suggest that the appetite which is kind shift into oblivion it just go away it wouldn't be there she listened closely to me she's thinking of Doctor I think I might be right thank you I hadn't thought of that she went home with a new battle to fight and one that I believe shall be victorious with I went on to give her a little clue you might want to use this on I have have any of you heard of Clarence Scholz Scholz Yass yet retired now recently retired from the Oregon conference that he has a book out a DVD how to die right and lived to tell about it how to die right and lived to tell about it for this particular patient I suggested that your notice is a fairly adamant this DVD and a and and releases that's a Catholic but I still felt that maybe this would be appropriate thing because it dealt with surrender and how to conquer self and how to be a victorious and overcoming individual so I suggested that you and I would recommend that for you if you haven't seen that is an excellent DVD set I bought it for myself actually and have enjoyed it very much principle number two could I challenge you today it'll work I think you'll find very frequently it'll give me the permission and it will allow you to integrate the spiritual with your patients and sometimes silly at all using variations on it all sake I challenge you today but could I challenge you today in a spiritual way or you know could I challenge you today a aware are you without you know that some of these type of things is even twisted and and manipulated and it works it works well I will be honest with you I have found when I do not give permission you're in trouble patients get angry with you I've had patients leave me it doesn't work well but if you get permission you can tell him almost anything I had a patient a long time ago in Portland who asked me what I thought about being gay and I told him within five said about it basically told them is all wrong in all wet and he walked out of that office a thank you there is amazing they are kept from SN and you can say and do a lots story number three I don't have a favorite line for this but nevertheless if applicable allow the Spirit to work through through you and I have actually choose stories for this one and I'll tell you and one is not a patient story how many of you have kids in here most of you had children anyone realize that children can push your buttons and aggravates you and the idea that while I have children and my children unfortunately are able to do the same so one day my children have done this to me and I have sent them into the realm and I was in there to talk to them and they have bunk beds and I was and then I had the presence of mind to say such a dog you please help me and this happens several years ago it really sticks out in my memory to this day because out of my mouse came phrases that I don't usually use words that I don't usually use intonation on the inflection in my voice was very different I was so different and and so unusual that I was almost surprised myself unlike bluestocking because it was just not me and what I would suggest to you is that spirit will speak through you and in fact Matthew talks about that that's about one were brought before governors and kings in time of trouble I think don't worry about what to say the spiritual beauty when I when you're dealing with patients in any engines emulator not before Governor thinking for the same principle applies if you will allow God he surrendered he will speak through you and the right words will come out the story is told and changing came to me for and another physician having been fired for violation of gas narcotics contract not your favorite patient not the one you want to see come in through your door furthermore Jean was lying all the time I mean just the last person he wanted to see what am I solicited well I said okay and I was trying to give these type of patients a second chance of Jane became my patient Xanax it was also Catholic and through the course of time when we started we started conversing in and talking about spiritual things issue presented Africa Bible studies and see accepted them and started taking them around this is good this is going forward then one day she came to me and she said you know I do have to stop the Bible studies I said why she's as well my Catholic family that really pressuring me hard I'm not supposed to be doing this I'm studying with Lee about somebody not of the Catholic it is as wrong you can't do this I said okay that's fine but you're in trouble with senior control of SR Lee is what I usually say she's inherent I think you're in trouble I believe the spirit was speaking through me again as adherence level and she looked at me with surprise will permit stroma suggests you're in trouble we see Jane and I predict heart in NC and understood that some of the dogmas of the Catholic Church were actually not biblical one was confession that recognizes you already don't believe what the church 's teaching and eleven go back to that she says your right but at least I know who to come to when I have questions I have one other thing that I didn't have in my scripts that I was an attempt last year with you Jane also said she'd hop me a really important thing she said to me one time she came into the interest that how I in particular the spacing Brandon opened the door and walking accident and crime she is obese is depressed she is narcotics if you want evasive so I went in one time me off my seat I want to see a doctor hiding their you done more for me than any other doctor I knew how I felt about her and wasn't good it wasn't right this is more firmly than any other doctor I managed to compose myself enough to stammer out will live walks and she said it seems like you care I'm not quite sure why she appeared to think that I care except as they got it covered up the ill feelings in me and she saw something different I was trying to give her a second chance of you know something that I learned an important lesson this is outside of my my normal script important lesson I've learned is great medicine is good stop science is good stuff but you know what really heels love care compassion that's when did more for her than anything else is okay back to the point of the story down the flesh this story was if we will allow God he will speak silhouettes he will change our verbiage are tall in our phrases he will just adjust it accordingly see you can tell a patient here in trouble or so you can talk to your children or so you can talk to you know the man in the auto garage while you're waiting for your tires to be fixed story number four listening for God talk to all of you know what God talk is an amusing that I am that I defined God talk is a patient who comes into you and says church God the Lord and any innuendo reference morality for spiritual thing bastard to grab it and run with it you'll be fine so the answer you and I was in church on Sunday and now I was feeling a little anxious of my heart was beating heart all orchards where you outwardly go to church bingo you're right into the spiritual and you'll go far with it in their appreciative of their happy with that story is this when I can use a real name Terry Terry is a patient of mine she came to me about a year ago it isn't all I do is narcotics because one suggestion is that the narcotics she also has a history of alcohol abuse and was an AA member since she came into me and she was talking about so higher power upon the spiritual reference boom to believe in God we believe in God woman church to go to well I haven't been going to any church recently but I used to go to level of another's a sizzling forty one twenty one when you looking for since I want something contemporary I'm interconnected you know I'd be happy to invite you to my church but I don't know if you'd like it is my church is anything but contemporary and it's true so I be always very honest is like this is not all think alike at all tell them that I said I'd be happy to invite you to stop contemporary Terry has stammered around her he I want you from the truth and I talked to her weaker to be breaking down to two amen to what was it that that that one you that make you want to look into this this the first time she told me that she said when you mention when I said truth you are all eyes lit up I don't know what happened I is fried I know my eyes were always the same you seem to see you saw something in the that made her think he's got to sit with I says let me tell you what I told about why had transitioned from my group practice to my solo practice and I and I offered her some new things I offered her to come to Bible study as we want to do and when to sit income week three this story has a happy ending three weeks from now I am scheduled to Kaiser and I have never performed baptisms will be a new experience for me and that I read I'm excited about it because here's here's somebody who is actually their lives have been changed their happier therefore you're there therein she's been able to stop her smoking and just a lot of things have transpired her knowledge of Scripture and understanding its roots and has has changed enormously she wrote up a little testimony for me which of the posting on our my website I just about the changes that she is had and it is a touching testimony so that's one less listen for God talk the patients will tell you when they're open to it you can pick up on it and asked an innocent question that will lead you into spiritual discussion and to a spiritually rich encounter with your patients story number four to all of you know what de novo means is that my language is a doctor language gay Adam not to take my my my software too familiar that I thought evanescence good to know that this story is introducing spirituality de novo figure in there you're talking with the patient and the spirit 's talent you impressing you talk to them about God there is no reference to God no reference to church there's no way you know there's nothing to challenge them about it and then there's nothing to current we do the spirit telling you there's no there's no there is no mind to tend naturally progress into that women are actually and I found some that work for me and once again they may not work for you but the one you like and I'd encourage you to try one thing I'll do is I'll just be very upfront with them I'm going to change subsidies and may seem somewhat unrelated but you'll soon see how it is related so patient by the way anxiety and depression is the easiest and the most simple way to introduce that you can always introduce the gospel with anxiety and depression and sometimes do that though and I'll take the depression history of the clinically know be depressed I will talk with them and nothing on the change the subject now it'll seem unrelated but associated where are you with God where are you spiritually do you believe in God will not just change gears completely open to and when you preface it with that type of thing they will listen to you and you can get by with that I had a patient comes in the two weeks ago a physician in the community came to me struggling with some anxieties and depression some relational issues and we talked about all this and I you said you can I have to just a point-blank question where are you spiritually and she's doing on I'm Native American and that's that and then my spiritual beliefs are Native American and she went she volunteers you have to say I would never raise my children with the Judeo-Christian perspective will boom this is my first visit I've not been a challenge or I'm not enough was sure I said oh okay that's interesting and I went on my merry way I dropped it completely so I opened the subject close that about a square if I can see the time wasn't right now the patient of mine came to me again they in for script refills of a narcotic script again quick and easy three minutes and three minutes out how you doing this month that it are the and just and making conversation I said to her what's new in my wits going on and she leaned forward and insurance you know Doctor Haskins in school I got called in by ministrations is a billet for long-term care facility about called environment administration and they admitted residents that are unable to pay and they are making me responsible for those bills and I have to have it cleaned up within three months or if I'm fired she was clearly raise your vibration didn't know what to do at her and she didn't have a second her husband was in an school faster point blank I said to believe in God you go to church and the real and I never broached I know that the patient fairly well never broached spiritual topics with her juices you know I haven't gone to church in a long time but I do go to weekly Bible July two I do I do believe in God so we talked a little bit more and I I assess is what would you like more would you like some something additional she wasn't quite ready she's just like I'm not sure yet I need to think about this so dog force encourage the Doppler sizes for what would work best for you could I let what would it be okay if I had to call me in two weeks and tell me what your decision will now that would be fine what I do I didn't push her I encouraged her and asked for just a wee little bit of a commitment to just unsure not sure that direction have a mid back yes I don't know the end of that okay the last thing that I want to you that I promised you I don't know how many worthy of you were there last night but one of my patients and Cindy I Sola is with with me last night and it is here with me today and I have asked her to come up and share with you and I have given her permission CNN I have been just been my patient for six and eight years now long time and I given her permission to do you can ask her some questions if you want not given I asked her to share with you some of the things that I did that helped draw her in an maker interested in spiritual things and also asked her to share with you some of the things I did wrong because we all make mistakes I think it's beneficial for you to know the things that don't work as well as the things that do work Cindy come on up how will this work on the microphone and do we have we don't have a second Mike would just pass it back and forth okay once one is so the city share with us some of the things and including these principles are excluding these principles that helped draw you in and helped you to be interested in spiritual things only when I first started to heat up fighting there on I expected the doctor talked to me about religion or anything like that was the first time that that's ever happened to me and it took a couple of incidents when I came in to talk with them and I think your trying to figure out who we were and how things are in effect and there is one time I went and heard that I was really going through a hard time I was having family problems my marriage was horrible I guess I was in a location and height of hearing the same thing as Doctor Heidegger asked me about it he wanted to know why wasn't I believe in God at all he never did anything for me I never know I will adopt all the things I went through if there was a time so he wasn't there for me I asked Doctor Heidegger started talking with me he would actually give me prescriptions with Bible verses the study is my medicine and at first I thought when I was about you know what I really liked it but as time went on and I am now this he knows me better she doesn't really require I met my mind when I what happened at a time so I got a little angry because I want to be anymore I didn't want to feel that I didn't want to be a part at having to be on narcotics I hate him and I I wanted to feel better he gave me this prescription is more in the first year I think that I felt this way and I was like I don't want anyone to feel better when I started to feel better when I would read the Scripture I a actually introverted me as one online I I learn more I found myself actually and I are doing work for me nobody has ever been able to do that I don't send it many times I said Cindy you need a different doctor I can't help you any market had truly been at my wits end I haven't known where to go or what to do as they say I'm I is I tell them tell them what I think the editing is interesting to me is and he told me recently that you still have some of those prescriptions and that I have four five six years ago that amazes me out I would expect anybody keep anything of mine for that long I will even find anything home he can help me spiritually I will also make an appointment just to go back for that part that was more than a dozen do you really will and sixty dollars to the link is fractured by me and it continued to have the kind my there is an Internet friend and I met him he would hunt you down and do his own practice I wasn't sure is going to send her time I wasn't sure I wanted to go and then the people of the other practices you have to pick you can go here and there and I wasn't sure what I wanted to go I was really struggling because I want to enhance their times and I felt better anyhow me and you will be okay with their signs were wanted to feel better physically and had to stop and I know why no one was in the sky hoping the paper said adding a dining room I told him I know I wanted to go in the Hamilton would you I is a part of what I need at times when I realized he is everything is everything here is my healer he is the one in the he is the one that I have to be patient as time goes on I'll continue to him and and after almost I'm not too long ago that definitely what we have to realize I is not selective as well at him attentively wet and smooth meal on thank you Cindy share with us a little bit about some of the things that maybe I pushed you away with instead of drawing you in with all they want to take the first European person so on it took a while and is seeking to be but will very go and I want answers sometimes he would talk to me about God that is what I wanted to hear and it is mainly a little bit anything that that was recently no I wanted to go to I was really a struggle was a you know that I was already as we seen any action taken and so there are signs of the struggles that honesty I can help you select a frustrating I I can't find that I found myself continually going back to her and share with me that nobody else is never shared nobody has ever come up to me and said I can help you using and change a lot of things to about a year ago we noticed that we've seen in this might my office staff have noticed to critical time periods when Cindy has changed one years and I don't know how many of you incorporate this into your practices but the practice of anointing or special prayer for the sick we actually had an anointing for Cindy about a year ago and while that didn't well that didn't create the drive towards God that we had hoped or the healing that we had hoped it didn't create in her heart a lot piece she and I was a little thing her directions shifted not strongly and not markedly but a definite shift towards spirituality and then we saw the other huge shift when she was in the emergency room which we shared with you last night that was the other large shifts that we've seen in Cindy's now I want you to know that from my perspective as a physician and has been frustrating she so would pardon me Cindy she's a high maintenance patient you know that we the city has been lots of work out lots of calls in an and that everything will once again if we will follow God and listen to God Gospel singers God will give us so Cindy is anxious and happy and waiting and wanting to be baptized at this point we've got some studies to do and we're working toward those who still struggles with a lot of pain issues and feel not feeling good and so there's still frustration because studies get canceled and it's hard to make progress but Cindy is alive and she's with us and she is anxious to serve God she actually comes into my office she's currently not working she comes into my office frequently and this quote free labor she's just so appreciated in fact I thought many times in the appreciates me the way we all should appreciate God is overflowing overwhelming appreciation toward God for what he's done for us I always hear that like I said I'll be honest I actually have seen any ascending toward me and I think it this is how I secured for God so that so there's good things happening in any and great changes that were seeing thank you Cindy thank you for sharing and thank you for coming out him 's him a so in summary we have discussed three four five principles we talked about introducing spiritual spirituality out of the blue we've talked about encouraging but not pushing we've talked quite a bit about getting permission could I challenge you we we talked about listening for God talk at this point I would like to open up the microphone for any questions that you have obviously again my way won't be your way for everything but if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer any questions and try to clarify some things in them and share with you what I know yes how do I left okay the question was how many patients do I see a day I will answer that question the long answer the long and serious I have been influenced fairly heavily by you by a group called restoration international which talks a lot about families and that type of thing I've been impressed and strongly impressed that my first duty is to God my second duty believe it or not is to my family wife and family as never let Mrs. never talked about an morning devotional this morning actually and thirdly my duty is work so I have done something is very atypical and supposedly I get blamed as being lazy and not working too hard and sometimes complain about not quite enough money because of my decisions but the fact of the matter is I work of new know either eleven to five four nine two three so the number of patients I see a day is limited on purpose to get I believe I need to we all have been influenced for my family how can I influence my children when they're teenagers as they don't know who that is cited in that very seriously and limited my work hours I see I try to sound like to see about fifteen or sixteen and a in that five six-hour time so yeah that's what I do does spirituality and religion spirituality is a time absolutely interesting it will slow you down some but I guarantee I absolutely promise you you'll find more reward and more keys and more satisfaction in your practice if you do it there's nothing more rewarding because I'm not going on every day looking for ways out and looking for other options divide Christmas tree farms in trying to grow mushrooms commercially was I seriously look into I mean I was asked unsatisfied with medicine so I promise you you'll find more satisfaction yes I saw another question yes the question is what adjustments what changes have occurred from my previous practice to this one a lot my previous practice I have bankers hours I worked nine to one four days a week and ninety five on the fifth day and I got a good salary for that it was a gravy schedule it was really really really nice I left that group practice and I form my own solo practice I work longer hours I make a whole lot less money I'm hoping that will change that right without that's the honest-to-goodness truth one of the big reasons that I transition from the group practice to the solo practice was because God has convicted me that I needed to be a true medical evangelist that I needed to be a true medical missionary and as I have contemplated and studied in frayed and tried on this what all that included I began absolutely convinced that I have to be able to hire my own staff okay in my group practice what was identity we had four and five six providers I wasn't in a safe yell fire all the staff I want all Christians can't do that that is not fair so I told him I'm leaving and they were not happy that they wanted me to stay actually and then I had another problem how do you hire staff with a passion for outreach will the quick and short answer and I don't have time to tail what time is that I dictate all the stories but I can promise you by my own personal experience God will send you this step you can't advertise it I advertise in the Gleaner I advertise in several places no responses whatsoever that God has set me staff interestingly enough I was then set absolutely then set on Adventist and evident only God has not allow that to happen in any way sure before I have one to suggest that that's all I wanted Adventist and the other has never been administering God won't send me this and I don't completely understand that but that is the facts they have a passion for outrage they're good Christians but they're not at this one I have now the evangelical event goes to the effect that did address your question I do know that additional questions on that line any other questions Doctor Geisinger this sort of thing is we got taken for a ride on a big ride I had a patient you will want anything to me and wanted to build the rest wow this is too good to be true a kind of stupidity and probably is well what happened in a long assorted circus for arrive he was wanting stuff from me and in the and I found that he spent many years behind bars he is you use the line he used that he is anything but honest and is so yes we had wanted to do that we were working that direction we thought we had a funding source for that and that's all kind of blown out the window box you raise an interesting point and that is as there is as life work along with my staff Tiffany is yesterday sitting with Cindy actually shaken up with what I think this is a brilliant idea and that is a you know we all struggle with lifestyle medicine and it takes so much time and how do you get paid for event etc. etc. etc. but Tiffany didn't anyone explain this is a mortgage and just how operating our program you see a patient every two weeks and you do it for diabetes or hypertension or hyperlipidemia or whatever and you charge the regular code two one three whatever form diabetes or hypertension and five minutes can be spent on the science of the disease process five minutes can be spent on the spiritual and of course you'll get their permission before most of my patients want the spiritualist view that don't want it to be honest and I find that can be spent on reviewing where they were and giving them assignment for the future so that's the way is not a restaurant and it's not a lifestyle center but it's a way to begin integrating the lifestyle and incorporating the spiritual with that in a very you know DA and pleasant methodical way we inhabit their plan for so when a massive developing that program Tiffany Lau repeated are you are you are in so already then I cheated repeatedly the microphone the audio verse Wesley do that lifestyle education building more engaged and more interested in more likely to follow through with what the church will be doing just programs a cooking school lifestyle related related type thing and don't resort up primed if you well and hopefully it will be an easy lead-in to get church members involved by the way I'm anxious to have other people involved with my patients the studies show that about them and that takes about seven contacts with an average test with different Adventist before somebody becomes an Adventist see you really want to spread this wealth of patients around as much as possible and get them talking with different people because it takes those different contacts to finally help a person toward making a decision yes to the question is why did I decide to become a physician the data come out of the blue or did I was I medically advanced mystically oriented all along the reason I decided to be a physician with all for the wrong reasons I grew up as a Pharisee doing all the right things for all the wrong reasons and so I grew I chose to do medicine in retrospect of the time and never would've admitted that but in retrospect I chose medicine for money for the wrong reason clearly and completely but that's really anything and choose what happened and that's why years later when I moved to Klamath Falls ten years ago I was so did satisfied then I went and I said I want on the lives out here about the money anymore I don't like this I don't want this and that's when I struggled with Don and God said no I want you in medicine doctors found was that he and I and you and you would like to rose surgeons still it is how repeat customers every specialty discipline assets back pain sensitivity and yet I'm in the principles of social Doctor Ravi has no one a use some of the principles that he may be introducing a little bit more on the de novo basis he may be asking to the challenge the follow-up is going to be a little bit more challenging so the sooner these he might be missing because this has been a six and seven and eight year process within the next area so he will cash because that was long the first visit and she was there an interested so that answers a question very well but that's about as good as I become public I think it you had another question the question is in my fully computerized and that the computer interface and fear with me and my patients the answer is yes I do have electronic medical records we use it extensively I have been found suits you in fact do what it says and that's probably it saves me a half two oh oh one FTE so it does save money in the long run on its helped organize our office has helped organize our staff I do not find that he gets between me and the patients on it it works fairly well for me that despite the fact that Tiffany hates it with a passion I him I am using AMD's my personal conclusion as EMI is good but it has not arrived yet there I looked I've looked at other programs AMD's as one of the highest rated in these within the class of money that I can afford I is my conclusion is EMD ten I'm in EMR 's have not fully arrived I was okay but I have I think but in they haven't fully arrived other questions yes you know that's a good question the question is I document my record that I've discussed spirituality I'm pretty shy on that I don't do a lot of that they got on my months of my patient I may stand fifteen twenty minutes sometimes talking about spiritual things with my patients and I will just tell them you know I'm not putting all of this in the record and and when I do what I do as I say discuss alternative medicine with the patient has my cube and I know I talked about spiritual things with them I mean and more proactive about how television is a you know what I'm sorry but I guarantee you I'm enough again on this conversation two and three weeks from now please remind me that we talked about this in myth and we can pick up and go from there the patients are okay with that they're fine with that will come in and felt on my memorandum were off and running again wrote from from where we are last time while lots of questions yes Tiffany UK I already have a record as Tiffany who runs might as my office manager and receptionist sounded generally speaking it's not a problem and it doesn't get me that far behind especially when the and a and the front office is in tune with where you're going and what you're trying to do occasionally does become a problem I have found personally that's another think I'm way behind on using on every time to go I'm usually prepares it and still be a quick narcotic we go in and out and I just saved a scheduled twenty minutes appointments and then I double booked through three or four times in the days of probably closer to fifteen seventeen minutes so it yet either I've been involved in some weeks I will go sometimes I'll go for a week without much of a spiritual conversation and then when one day last week I think I talked about deep spiritual things with almost half of the patients on the varies quite a bit I'm sure some of that is needed and based on my walk with God and how in June I am with God and some of it's just the just life I'm sure yes you are the narcotics thing I have sweated in an student and an fast and been frustrated with the blur and ending up at this point is I was doing every three months visits I've changed after talking with a pain specialist and doing every month visits that's working out a lot better yes I try to have both a pain contract on them and a specialty backup on them saying yes this is reasonable this is okay that type of thing I'm not completely comfortable with where I am on that even gaps I'm thinking I may need to be doing more with urine drug screens I'm finding I'm still being taken and still being abused scored on call if you well and is bothersome to me so that's that's a work in evolution says he actually has been very anxious you heard her story seems she really wants to work with us her health at this point is I'm not allow that she actually has a heard her specialty and expertise is an addiction and she is in the process of formulating for me and my tenacity offered to do this with formulating a something is on a testing materials to help me figure out okay these votes are addicted watch out for him be careful these folks are totally normal you're doing the right thing and I'm actually thinking about even offering that service to the community visit because we're all in the same boat on this were all scared of this and where all know that some of its legitimate and was struggling with how to do it and we don't have the addiction and alcohol background earned addiction background to completely figure out these patients and decipher which ones are taking us for a writer not as I think it might be a useful thing for the community but we haven't quite found the area yes you know the prayer issue I think I'm negligent .net is a small percentage actually I have a lot of spiritual conversations with my patients but as far as praying with them I personally don't pray with that many add I think I'm never negligent on that one reason I think that if I was recently long time in Todd and William and I have special music tomorrow so I was within practicing is about an hour from us and in the process of talking with how deathly little bit and he says eighty five to ninety percent of his patients want prayer he's become known as the praying physician in his community the take-home message they get I operate with numbers less than ten percent I would say but that tells me I need to be changing their identity growing in that area and begin playing more with with my patients as I think to be receptive to it by running out of time and timekeeper and will is personally it is shared areas that your drawing with a window I think as I is a really good job of being vulnerable things that you be updating you warmly for taking time out of your schedule for being willing to come and share with us for being willing to be vulnerable you know you're a mess the group of doctors and dentists that everybody here has areas of Kurds were looking for God is in one day by the grace of God are evil and procedures on the other side and you is can we stand and half reared together he father in heaven thank you for your grace thank you for your love thank you for your mercy I pray that this week cool about tomorrow that we would continue to receive your Holy Spirit and the blessing that we would be surrendered and completely surrendered so that we could receive the blessing you want to get dressed I further pray that their lives would be changed and that we would be new creations and new physicians and physicians who whose primary purpose is actually to work for you and right away our internal stimuli will this is my prayer is a man who this weekend was produced by audio verse way Pentagon anyone know what you'd like to learn more about me then please visit www. a man who has not like there was more free online service please visit www. online universe

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